Coronavirus outbreaks in England spreading mostly in schools

[herecomesthsun]

Link here

I know it is what many of us have been predicting for some months, so an all too familiar topic.

However, I thought some of you, maybe especially teachers or those from vulnerable families, might be interested in having the article flaaged up.

[quote Napqueen1234]@noblegiraffe why are you so invested in this issue?[/quote]
Secondary teacher.

And I'm a bit concerned that there are people out there deliberately campaigning for unsafe working conditions for me and my colleagues.

Are you not concerned?

If you extremely vulnerable then you should be shielding.

Don't know if you've noticed, Jane but shielding isn't a thing at the moment. Teachers are required to be back at school.

No? I’m guessing then, Jane you should retract your comment about I'll go further and say that I find healthy, grown adults pushing their (unfounded) worries to the front of the queue really a bit pathetic. now that you realise that previously shielding teachers are now stood in front of classes in unsafe conditions.

If you extremely vulnerable then you should be shielding.

Shielding ended ages ago now in almost all areas/cases.

Extremely clinically vulnerable teachers are in schools teaching daily, as are clinically vulnerable (non shielded) ones.
ECV and CV children are also in school in the main.

@Janevaljane

If you extremely vulnerable then you should be shielding.

Are you serious?!

@Janevaljane You are a hoot! Shielding ended! Extremely vulnerable and vulnerable teachers are back in the classrooms!

Just seen this article in the Daily Mail. It doesn’t specify any ages for those tested but those that are younger and healthier are more likely to be the ones that are asymptomatic. Maybe when cases continue to rise in areas with additional restrictions they might start mass testing in a sample of schools and find the virus running through them like wildfire and look at what measures are necessary to stop this. That would be admitting that schools weren’t as safe as they suggested though.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8814057/Almost-90-coronavirus-infected-patients-DONT-symptoms.html

they might start mass testing in a sample of schools and find the virus running through them like wildfire

The virus is probably already spreading through University halls and schools like wildfire. But 90% are asymptotic and the rest are mild symptoms.

And if most people are asymptotic they won't know they need testing either!

@Sunflowers247
They won’t though, they won’t like what they find.

They are doing this study in Bristol commins.org.uk/

However no results from it yet - and if they've been saliva testing from the start of school in Sept they should have data.

The fact they aren't releasing it suggests to me it probably shows that sars-cov-2 is rife in schools and that the measures in place are inadequate to protect teachers.

I don't really see the point of doing an academic study over 6 months and not reporting until the end - we need information on number of asymptomatic children in schools now so we can make decisions like - for example - should everyone be wearing masks all the time.

It seems they really are waiting for teachers to die before anyone does anything, I think it's unbelievable when one of the mitigations is so cheap and easy (masks for everyone who can, all the time except eating).

The fact they aren't releasing it suggests to me it probably shows that sars-cov-2 is rife in schools and that the measures in place are inadequate to protect teachers

This could be true, but in the case of our school there have been numerous children tested due to symptoms (coughs, temps etc) and every single one has been negative. At least half of DD2’s class has been tested over the past 8 weeks. If it was rife there I’d expect at least a few positives.

The unions should be doing more in my opinion. There is no data to show that having no measures comparable to other workplaces is safe. The government does not seem to be investigating asymptomatic cases. Data we should have

In one Israeli outbreak in schools they found the following: www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.29.2001352?mc_source=MTExMDY2Ojo6OTgxM2NkZDM4OGRjNGFlM2JhY2RhNWIyZTNlODhkOTE6OnYzOjoxNTk2NDc1MjIzOjox#html_fulltext

"The first case was registered on 26 May and the second on 27 May. The two cases were not epidemiologically linked. Testing of the complete school community revealed 153 students (attack rate: 13.2%) and 25 staff members (attack rate: 16.6%) who were COVID-19 positive. Overall, some 260 persons were infected (students, staff members, relatives and friends)."

So from 2 cases in schools - 260 people were infected - students, staff, relatives and friends.

Israeli schools are more comparable to UK schools as crowded with large class sizes. They did however wear masks except during a heatwave when given permission to take them off. And then the outbreaks happened.

The problem is that I think because testing is focusing on the 3 symptoms they are essentially finding lots of cases of rhinovirus infection (which have one of those 3 symptoms) but missing lots of asymptomatic or differently symptomatic covid.

IMO they should be testing close contacts of positive cases if they want to limit outbreaks - particularly now they seem determined to keep bubbles open and only send some kids home. In the Israeli outbreaks, 60% of children were asymptomatic and we've seen at Northumbria university about 90% of those tested positive were asymptomatic.

I suspect that for children, covid is much more likely to be an asymptomatic disease than other things circulating at this time of year.

"
"The first case was registered on 26 May and the second on 27 May. The two cases were not epidemiologically linked. Testing of the complete school community revealed 153 students (attack rate: 13.2%) and 25 staff members (attack rate: 16.6%) who were COVID-19 positive. Overall, some 260 persons were infected (students, staff members, relatives and friends)."

So from 2 cases in schools - 260 people were infected - students, staff, relatives and friends."

That can't be extrapolated at all.
We can only say that 2 cases were initially identified and these identifications and subsequent wider resting revealed 260 cases. Not that these two cases "caused" the others.

@CulturallyAppropriatedName

" "The first case was registered on 26 May and the second on 27 May. The two cases were not epidemiologically linked. Testing of the complete school community revealed 153 students (attack rate: 13.2%) and 25 staff members (attack rate: 16.6%) who were COVID-19 positive. Overall, some 260 persons were infected (students, staff members, relatives and friends)."

So from 2 cases in schools - 260 people were infected - students, staff, relatives and friends."

That can't be extrapolated at all.
We can only say that 2 cases were initially identified and these identifications and subsequent wider resting revealed 260 cases. Not that these two cases "caused" the others.

Agree. Plus there was low incidence of close contact transmission in the study.

DCs are saying that quite a lot of people in school have colds, sore throats and are coughing which is not unusual for this time of year. They say teachers are no longer that alarmed by coughs and seem to have given up sending students home unless someone is obviously unwell. I would hazard a guess that if they sample tested a few secondary schools cases could be up there with the universities.

I suspect that for children, covid is much more likely to be an asymptomatic disease than other things circulating at this time of year.

I agree. It's good that children and adolescents aren't affected much by Covid. Lots of Uni students are asymptotic too!

From the same paper

"By mid-June 2020, 87 additional confirmed COVID-19 cases had occurred among close contacts of the first school’s cases. These included siblings attending other schools, friends and participants in sports and dancing afternoon classes, students’ parents and family members of school staff."

Fine, causality wasn't 'proven' but frankly I'm not that reassured by this analysis. And I wonder why the same analysis isn't happening in UK schools where there are 2 positive cases. Surely, surely, that data would be useful? I can see no innocent reason why it isn't being done.

Their conclusion

"COVID-19 prevention in schools involves studying in small groups and minimising student mixing in activities and transportation. Teachers and parents should lead by wearing facemasks, hand hygiene, keeping physical distance etc. School attendance should be avoided at any sign of illness. Learning from home may also reduce the need for class attendance. Outdoors classes should also be considered. COVID-19 prevention encompasses avoiding the ‘three Cs’: closed spaces with poor ventilation, crowded places and close-contact settings [15]"

So, in the UK in schools we're not avoiding ANY of those 3 C's.

@IloveJKRowling

I suspect that for children, covid is much more likely to be an asymptomatic disease than other things circulating at this time of year.

Yes this is correct and is one of the most cursed aspects of this bloody virus - if we could just see more easily who had it, it would spread so much less easily!

Yes this is correct and is one of the most cursed aspects of this bloody virus - if we could just see more easily who had it, it would spread so much less easily!

True, but it's great that the vast majority (80%?) of children and adolescents are asymptomatic. And the death rate in that age group tiny.

True, but it's great that the vast majority (80%?) of children and adolescents are asymptomatic. And the death rate in that age group tiny.

This argument just doesn't mean that much to me, we are in a real pickle I think.

Would you rather it was Ebola? That makes itself pretty obvious.

@Janevaljane

Would you rather it was Ebola? That makes itself pretty obvious.

Oh well done, you played the ebola card!