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Original poster

The average age of people who die of Covid is apparently older than British life expectancy. This can't be true can it?

300 replies

Treesofwood · 05/10/2020 19:36

I've tried to find data rather than just a tweet and I can't. I did find something about the median age of deaths in France being 81. This can't be true either, surely? Median being the middle number if they were all lined up.
I knew it disproportionately impacted older people obviously, but surprised by this data.

OP posts:
ChodeOfChodeBall · 06/10/2020 21:06

And, yes, it is a fucking virus. Like lots of others.

Why has this one been elevated to such a holy status?

Porcupineinwaiting · 06/10/2020 21:11

@ChodeOfChodeBall

Oo, oo, I know this one!
Because it's a novel virus, whose action is not well understood, which is 10 times more lethal than flu (latest estimate by the CDC) and we have neither a vaccine nor any effective treatment for it.

Go on, ask me another.

Original poster
Treesofwood · 06/10/2020 21:14

Porcupineinwaiting No way is it ten times more lethal than flu. Source please.

OP posts:
Flaxmeadow · 06/10/2020 21:18

Flax, sorry for being pedantic. It's the only thing I can actually, concretely make better in this situation.

Make better?

I take it you have not lost your job, and that your sector has not been comprehensively fucked, as a result of lockdown

I have lost my job recently. I posted about it on MN the other day. My sector, retail (I've also posted that too) , has been fucked. Its tough shit.

This is not about me though, it's about everyone and especially our vulnerble. It's a crisis. A global fucking pandemic and it affects, or is that effects?, us all.

Flaxmeadow · 06/10/2020 21:19

Because it's a novel virus, whose action is not well understood, which is 10 times more lethal than flu (latest estimate by the CDC) and we have neither a vaccine nor any effective treatment for it

True

ChodeOfChodeBall · 06/10/2020 21:23

@Flaxmeadow

Flax, sorry for being pedantic. It's the only thing I can actually, concretely make better in this situation.

Make better?

I take it you have not lost your job, and that your sector has not been comprehensively fucked, as a result of lockdown

I have lost my job recently. I posted about it on MN the other day. My sector, retail (I've also posted that too) , has been fucked. Its tough shit.

This is not about me though, it's about everyone and especially our vulnerble. It's a crisis. A global fucking pandemic and it affects, or is that effects?, us all.

@Flaxmeadow Your post made me laugh, not least at my own pedantry. "Affects" is right (though I think you know this).

I realise we all come at this from slightly different angles. I've not had any income since March, and have two teenagers and bills to pay. In that situation, I'm "the vulnerable", as are my children. Frankly, I would walk over anyone to house and feed my children.

I am one of what you call "our vulnerable", as it happens. I still don't care if I catch Covid, because in my view, I'm a drop in the ocean compared to all the people who will go under as a result of lockdown and its aftermath. That being the case, I am going to have as normal a life as I possibly can have, because death is all I otherwise have to look forward to, and I don't fancy that unless I've done a lot of other good stuff with the people I love first.

LindaEllen · 06/10/2020 21:35

I don't understand why this is surprising. This is a prime example of why people should research and read stats instead of panicking and being scared they might die. I was guilty of it myself when my partner caught covid and then passed it to me, and I was so scared one or both of us might die - because of all the media I'd seen. But the fact remains that for the overwhelming majority, you can recover at home with absolutely no intervention whatsoever. It is very very important to keep a sense of perspective on this.

CoffeeandCroissant · 06/10/2020 21:37

@Treesofwood

Porcupineinwaiting No way is it ten times more lethal than flu. Source please.
IFR is age dependent, as it is for flu. mobile.twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1313542640391139329
Porcupineinwaiting · 06/10/2020 21:37

@Treesofwood I literally gave you the source in my post!

Flaxmeadow · 06/10/2020 21:46

ChodeOfChodeBall

I like your fun banter and hope things improve for you and your family soon, but with respect, this isn't just about you

ChodeOfChodeBall · 06/10/2020 21:59

Flax, of course it isn't just about me. If I get Covid, I'll probably die or be hospitalised for a very long time due to underlying conditions. However, I'd quite like to enjoy my life in the meantime (or what's left of it - can't even afford to take the teenagers out for a Big Mac at the moment, and I know they're only 89p as I looked earlier!)

If I do drop dead, I'd like to do so in the knowledge that other people are going to be able to enjoy their lives again without all these ridiculous restrictions.

I'm thinking of the bigger picture, odd as it might seem to anyone with a different perspective.

Original poster
Treesofwood · 06/10/2020 22:00

Porcupine in waiting. I could say that PHE says that flu is more fatal to thise under 48 than Covid. Doesn't mean the PHE actually said that. It also doesn't mean that is the original. Source of the data, or that it's true.

OP posts:
Flaxmeadow · 06/10/2020 22:04

If I do drop dead, I'd like to do so in the knowledge that other people are going to be able to enjoy their lives again without all these ridiculous restrictions

Other people, or most other people, want to follow the guidelines

You might think they're ridiculous, but most people don't

It isn't about what you or I want, it's about the wider community. It's about ensuring that services, for all, are not overwhelmed

PinkFondantFancy · 06/10/2020 22:04

Not remotely surprising. Which is what a large proportion of us have been saying all along but we get shouted down.

SheepandCow · 06/10/2020 22:12

Why are people still fixated on deaths?

We can't continue to ignore the risks to the long-term economy, and (as pointed out today by Matt Hancock) the need to contain Covid in order to ensure access to hospital treatments and diagnoses.

We need to contain Covid to be able to have a normal functioning society.

Oh - and there's the Long Covid risks too.

PatriciaHolm · 06/10/2020 22:17

IFR (for both Covid and Flu) varies widely by age, but according to the CDC, IFR for 70+ for Covid is around 5.4% -

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios

and IFR for Flu for the over 65s is around 0.8%

www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html (needs calculating from table 2)

Flu actually has a higher IFR for infants, though the IFR is tiny for both Covid and Flu for them anyway.

cathyandclare · 06/10/2020 22:21

Thanks @PatriciaHolm, I've missed your calm, informed and reasonable comments.

ChodeOfChodeBall · 06/10/2020 22:34

@Flaxmeadow

If I do drop dead, I'd like to do so in the knowledge that other people are going to be able to enjoy their lives again without all these ridiculous restrictions

Other people, or most other people, want to follow the guidelines

You might think they're ridiculous, but most people don't

It isn't about what you or I want, it's about the wider community. It's about ensuring that services, for all, are not overwhelmed

Oh, but they already are overwhelmed, Flax, by people like me who can't climb their own staircases at home, so are having to pee in a Tupperware container downstairs. But people like me have had all their appointments cancelled due to Covid, which is virtually non-existent where I live.

I have many, many friends whose problems are not A&E cases, but who can't see a GP, never mind obtain a referral to a specialist. The GP is only offering telephone consultations to the very lucky few who can get them. I had a RL appointment a month or so ago, and the GP had a rant about the shitness of his situation. He said he wants to see patients face to face. He wants to see their facial expressions without masks. He wants to be able to touch them with his hands, not with his gloves, and feel what's wrong. He can't do his job properly because of this.

He did, thank God, ask if he could take his gloves off and feel my particular problem. I jumped at it. I still can't see a consultant, but at least the GP could immediately give me a differential diagnosis.

Flaxmeadow · 06/10/2020 22:39

Oh, but they already are overwhelmed, Flax,

So why would you want them to be even more overwhelmed!

BatSegundo · 06/10/2020 22:47

Hmm, well I'm vulnerable and actually I do care if I catch it and die. As will my kids and the rest of my family.

I don't think the government are doing this to save the lives of the vulnerable though. Whilst I'd like to think Boris and co have the best interests of the elderly, disabled or otherwise vulnerable at heart, there's quite a lot of evidence to the contrary.

Restrictions are about containing the virus enough to keep the economy limping along whilst avoiding services collapsing. If we can contain it like this, then no need for lockdown. If not then the government will have to choose between lockdown (possibly with civil unrest, depending on how well it's managed) and the collapse of services with civil unrest very likely. We'd do better to keep a lid on it.

Wheresthebeach · 06/10/2020 23:11

@hamstersarse

As far as I know the average age for death 'with' coronavirus is 82

Which is below the average life expectancy

They have said this right from the start, but people chose to listen to what they chose to listen to

My DS18 has it at the moment - in Uni halls - and they are all completely fine (it is absolutely rife there - I'd say 50% of the student village have it at the moment) and the risk to them is so very small. They are a bit 'coldy' and will probably be over it in a few days. And we all have some herd immunity in place.

If this were killing young healthy people there would be cause for panic....but as it is...in the words of Whitty "this is a mild disease for the majority"

Yep and yet we are abandoning cancer patients, destroying our economy and chucking our basic freedoms out the window.
Flaxmeadow · 06/10/2020 23:21

and chucking our basic freedoms out the window

Like what? What basic freedoms are being chucked?

NRatched · 07/10/2020 02:37

@Zxyzoey31

Sheepandcows I see you're on yet another thread going on about long covid. As I posted before even Tim Spector of the Zoe app said 1 in 50 had symptoms after 3 months and the people on that app are not going to include many people who were asymptomatic.
1 in 50 had symptoms after 3 months

Do you know if this is 'symptoms' in general, or the 'worse symptoms' that would affect someones life negatively (ie fatigue)? I have been pondering if I would be classed as having this much mentioned on MN 'LongCovid' given I still, months on, have not fully recovered my sense of taste. Probably at about 50% now or thereabouts. I am wondering if stuff like that would add to the figures? As while its bloody annoying, its not exactly problematic. So it would be odd if it was included, given LongCovid is made out to be some awful thing that loads of younger people, and this is certainly not as awful as LongCovid is made out to be, but if its just 'long lasting symptoms' then I guess it would include people like me?

Bool · 07/10/2020 03:40

The problem for European countries to do a ‘New Zealand’ and lock their borders is the detriment that would be to the many families who live between countries. With extended family and parents and grandparents in other European countries. I am still flying back and forth to see my husband who lives in another European country every 3-4 weeks. My kids have grandparents in another and went to see them in the summer (after effectively shielding for 2 weeks I hasten to add). Another friend got married 2 weeks ago to someone from another country and their parents flew over two weeks beforehand to shield and then be there. Another lives here and has young triplets and wanted to go see her parents over the summer as she had a horrendous lockdown. So while it might sound easy to shut our borders there are people issues there too. And yes you can shout all you like that people should not see each other until all this is over. But when will it be over? Just saying this is a complex situation with no easy solutions when you think deeper.

KitKatastrophe · 07/10/2020 06:27

@Flaxmeadow

and chucking our basic freedoms out the window

Like what? What basic freedoms are being chucked?

Being able to see friends and family when and where we want.

I would say it is pretty basic to want to have your mum round to your house for a cup or tea. In many parts of the country this is currently illegal.

If someone had said to you this time last year, that it would be illegal to meet in a group if 7 or to have friend round to your home, wouldn't you have been horrified?

Women are not being allowed birth partners to support them during labour. Dying people are not allowed to be visited by their relatives (see current thread running). People are being denied treatment such as medical or dental procedures.
I would say these are all basic freedoms which should be taken for granted in England in the 21st Century.