I'm so angry...

[MaryShelley1818]

We are in an area with local restrictions so high transmission rates in the North East of England.

Someone I know had her 40th at the weekend and photos on FB of her having a party in a pub, cake presents, her and kids, her parents, her sister who works at a local University in a very high position, and about 4-5 friends. No Social Distancing, drinking, cuddling, shots, photos.
How are people just carrying on as normal??!! How can you be so bloody thick as to post all the photos on FB. Am I missing something?? I'm furious.

We've followed every single rule but seems I'm in the minority and the longer people just do whatever they want for, the longer I'll have to go without seeing my friends and family.

@Flaxmeadow

Its a fucking farce. To expect thousands of years of human psychology to change in order to control a virus doing what a virus does is insanity.

Yes but there have been quarantines before, even before the medieval period. I believe even the word quarantine comes from the times of plague. When whole streets or even villages were placed in lockdown

70,000 years bc, some catastrophe, a virus or volcano, almost wiped out the human race, leaving only a tiny percent of survivors (our ancestors)

What makes us think we're so special now? Do we think it will just disappear because we want to go on holiday, or to the pub or restaurant. Celebrate in large gatherings for Xmas or birthdays, get married in a big ceremony in a packed church. No it's an ongoing massive crisis

And people are still catching the plague today. About 5000 per year, including a few in the US. Luckily the plague is bacterial so we can easily treat it NOW - that may change if it becomes resistant.

This vaccine - I'm not quite sure what everyone's thoughts are. Even if we do get one in spring, it still needs to be manufactured in enormous numbers. Bearing in mind that we are already rationing the flu vaccine this year - because we haven't enough - despite knowing we need it every year. If/when a vaccine is released, there will be a world wide demand that cannot easily be met. It will only be available to the most vulnerable for many years initially at least.

Luckily, we know that is not too important as Covid is not dangerous to the majority of fit people under 50 and not even very dangerous to the majority of less fit people, though obviously riskier.

Every year we lose fit healthy children to flu and yet none to Covid.
Oh and the numbers especially with reference to the minority of false positives after all it's only 1% - which is only 1,000 out of 100,000 people so that doesn't matter don't even warrant being called and epidemic any more.

The virus is here to stay, herd immunity is the only way forward. Hopefully next year herd immunity will be enhanced with a vaccine. I hope so - but it is still herd immunity. if immunity from previous infection doesn't last it's highly likely that the same will apply to the vaccine

My neighbour regularly glares at us when MIL turns up in a taxi on a weekly basis. Not even sure if we are breaking any rules at the moment, presume not as support bubbles will surely not be something that will be removed, even in resrticted areas, but if they were, sorry but we would conitnue giving her weekly support. As she self harmed last time and already suffers crippling anxiety and depression (along with some other health issues which mean we have to sort things like her shopping). Virtual support was attempted and failed, and still she self harmed. So we allowed her to visit, then after this, support bubbles became a thing for people like her. Some would find that selfish, and maybe they would be right.

Its a fucking farce. To expect thousands of years of human psychology to change in order to control a virus doing what a virus does is insanity.

This is the most accurate summary I’ve read of what’s going on. Well done on crystallising it so well.

And you’re right. It’s stupid beyond belief.

A 10 year old could do a better job.

@TheKeatingFive

Its a fucking farce. To expect thousands of years of human psychology to change in order to control a virus doing what a virus does is insanity.

This is the most accurate summary I’ve read of what’s going on. Well done on crystallising it so well.

And you’re right. It’s stupid beyond belief.

And doing more lockdown which clearly didn’t work before other than an extremely temporary measure is the stupidest thing of all.

Just to let you know, viruses did nearly wipe off North native Americans.

@JKRowlingIsMyQueen

Well that’s strange because the posts on mumsnet have very rarely come up with an answer only criticism and a lot of defending of some of those breaking the rules just for the sake of it .

So I have to disagree with you there .

Some opinionated twat on TV today saying lockdown doesn't work because the cases are going up in those areas.

Local lockdown isn't working because people refuse to follow the lockdown rules.

So lockdown would work if people stopped doing what your friend did.

There is no one answer. Those clowns in the government have made a bad situation immeasurably worse.

@MaryShelley1818

We are in an area with local restrictions so high transmission rates in the North East of England.

Someone I know had her 40th at the weekend and photos on FB of her having a party in a pub, cake presents, her and kids, her parents, her sister who works at a local University in a very high position, and about 4-5 friends. No Social Distancing, drinking, cuddling, shots, photos.
How are people just carrying on as normal??!! How can you be so bloody thick as to post all the photos on FB. Am I missing something?? I'm furious.

We've followed every single rule but seems I'm in the minority and the longer people just do whatever they want for, the longer I'll have to go without seeing my friends and family.

Alert the police. Covid marshals were supposed to stop this.

This thread is totally depressing...

OP I agree with you.

I'm surprised that any pub allowed a 'party', particularly in an area with local restrictions. I've just celebrated a birthday, with quite a few venues involved over the course of a few days, but haven't been anywhere where groups of more than 6 were allowed- it seemed to be enforced quite strictly. Perhaps your area is harsher than ours -- we do have local restrictions, but cake, presents and socialising with people who work in universities are also permitted. Guess it wasn't very wise of them to cuddle each other and put the pics on FB though.

The whole point is that Covid is continuing to spread in private homes, not in pubs or schools.

Thats simply not true. Not according to official stats anyway. B far, most spread is schools, work and restaurants/pubs.

But, people meeting in private homes create no cash. Thats why homes are targetted more. I get it. We need the economy going, so stop anything that doesn't bring in the cash. But claiming its because the spread is in homes rather than pub/school is just total bollocks.

@redcarbluecar

I'm surprised that any pub allowed a 'party', particularly in an area with local restrictions. I've just celebrated a birthday, with quite a few venues involved over the course of a few days, but haven't been anywhere where groups of more than 6 were allowed- it seemed to be enforced quite strictly. Perhaps your area is harsher than ours -- we do have local restrictions, but cake, presents and socialising with people who work in universities are also permitted. Guess it wasn't very wise of them to cuddle each other and put the pics on FB though.

The pub needs closing down immediately. It's corporate manslaughter what they're doing when there's strict local restrictions.

The police need making aware before more community transmission is allowed to spread in a high risk area. Gross negligence.

@redvest

Some opinionated twat on TV today saying lockdown doesn't work because the cases are going up in those areas.

Local lockdown isn't working because people refuse to follow the lockdown rules.

So lockdown would work if people stopped doing what your friend did.

You think???? ok!

Agree OP, it's infuriating.

It angers me when people say 'I'll do my own risk assessment', it's such a cop out and selfish attitude.

I'm not following rules because I agree with the government (firmly Labour) but because it's what we ALL need to do.

yes and then to put your photos proudly on Facebook! totally selfish when others have made such huge sacrifices. who are they to dictate whether someone at risk gets to live or die. the venue needs closing down.

@annabel85 Yes I'm really surprised that a pub allowed that to happen. I suppose being allowed to break rules doesn't justify it, but in my (admittedly limited) experience, places are being very careful about the rule of 6. I suppose the photos must have made it clear that the rule breach had happened though, for OP to be so angry.

@Stellaris22

Agree OP, it's infuriating.

It angers me when people say 'I'll do my own risk assessment', it's such a cop out and selfish attitude.

I'm not following rules because I agree with the government (firmly Labour) but because it's what we ALL need to do.

And therein lies the problem.

Labour would be even more about taking our human rights away. We need a strong opposition with scientific advisors who aren't heavily invested in the Vaccine industry, so without a huge interest in scaring the public into queuing up for barely tested vaccines.

And before anyone says it I am definitely a Pro Vaxxer for well tested and proven vaccines. Not this one, that is going to make millions for Whitty etc, without being adequately tested - and non culpability built into the conditions.

I agree op.

We've followed all the rules since March. Dh went out with a pal the other week, to a pub for the first time since March. He's now got covid. It's utter shit.

The trouble is the more people that don’t follow the guidelines the more chance of tighter controls going forward. Those of us following the guidelines are then confined even more.

Whether or not you agree with the scientists, government or people on MN about the response to the Pandemic and even if you don’t care about the potential trauma and death caused by the virus spreading unchecked, it’s selfish to party on and ignore the rules because it is likely to cause tighter restrictions for us all.

@MaryShelley1818

We are in an area with local restrictions so high transmission rates in the North East of England.

Someone I know had her 40th at the weekend and photos on FB of her having a party in a pub, cake presents, her and kids, her parents, her sister who works at a local University in a very high position, and about 4-5 friends. No Social Distancing, drinking, cuddling, shots, photos.
How are people just carrying on as normal??!! How can you be so bloody thick as to post all the photos on FB. Am I missing something?? I'm furious.

We've followed every single rule but seems I'm in the minority and the longer people just do whatever they want for, the longer I'll have to go without seeing my friends and family.

Genuine question, MaryShelley1818 - have you reported her, the pub, etc? That's the only way to properly channel your anger. Btw, I agree with you.

[quote redcarbluecar]@annabel85 Yes I'm really surprised that a pub allowed that to happen. I suppose being allowed to break rules doesn't justify it, but in my (admittedly limited) experience, places are being very careful about the rule of 6. I suppose the photos must have made it clear that the rule breach had happened though, for OP to be so angry.[/quote]
The vast majority of pubs have been very good, but the ones allowing things like this need shutting down.

@BikeTyson

However articulate the statement of your position may be, what exactly would you propose should happen instead? I just want to clarify if you accept that an uncontrolled virus ripping through the population would break health services and result in many preventable deaths. Or are you saying that this wouldnt happen?

Well what is your alternative? Because posters above are saying we accept this is now how we live forever. What do we do after the next lockdown, and the next, and the next? Even the head of the vaccine trials says don’t wait for the vaccine. And it’s probably only going to be given to the vulnerable. So what, do the under 50s have to socially distance for the rest of time? What’s your exit strategy?

I am not the one challenging the current advice and laws, which is why I asked those who do.

However, I see the sense in the strategy which attempted to control the spread while beginning to normalise working, education and industry. Which is where we were until recently. We are having to retrench, as far as I understand it NOT because of risks taken in a work or hospitality environment, but predominantly due to high risk optional social gatherings and failure to socially distance, and wear masks.

Front line workers, teachers, hospitality - all these people are risking catching covid to keep the world turning. Further lockdowns deprive them of a means of earning a living and for many of us the normality we aspire to. So I think it is counter intuitive to argue that it is justifiable to 'fuck the new normal' and socially gather when that is almost guaranteed to prolong the most severe lockdown restrictions and economic pain.

The argument about other mortality factors is interesting. Surely the whole point is that flu, pneumonia, cancer, mental health and unemployment all have existing pathways and safety nets. Imperfect safety nets, granted (I dont quite understand how cancer services have been so severely diminished while covid is in hand for instance, but for sure those services will be worse when admissions increase again). The safety net for covid will come through ever-increasing understanding of the virus and effective anti-transmission, treatment protocols, and yes, vaccines.

My behaviour is probslby more risk-averse than the governments requirements. We have minimised our risks because we are lucky enough to be able to do so and will do so for as long as it takes for covid to be normalised and treatable. I understand it is more difficult for many people but I struggle with the glorification of 'fuck the rules' and disrespecting all the people who are doing their best to comply at some personal cost, in absence of a compelling alternative solution. People whom, we have to pray, are in the majority.

I think... there is no answer until there is some level of herd immunity. And a vaccine. As the vaccine option is unlikely to materialise magically before Autumn 2021, then it's over to you, everyone, to decide how you see working through the crises; I don't think this will be the final phase. DS has just gone to uni and has contracted COVID-19, but at 21, it's been fairly trivial, just inconvenient and he's recovered. But there's no way he would have been permitted to visit his GM who's 91 and in poor health. We've just bowed out of a long-planned weekend away with friends we've not seen for a year because DH is running a business that has people all over on sites, and because the other participants have chronic conditions, and relatives needing major surgery, and family members recovering from recent major surgeries for whom they provide childcare. The risk of taking an unpleasant virus to any of them is a risk we prefer to avoid. But because we are the highest risk members of the gang with the most contacts, we have backed off, so they can proceed. We shall continue to plan to see other old friends, SD maintained, but those at higher risk, we'll Zoom.