What hope do we have when MPs can't follow the rules?

[mrshoho]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-54379026

She travelled from London by train from Scotland to London and back knowing she was positive! And visited parliament! no excuse for this.

It's incredible isnt it Helena, sooo many stupid people about unable to use common sense and who on earth advised him to get the train! Surely in that instance there must've been accommodation he could have used to self isolate?

I think he's been told it'll be debated in the HoC, so they'll examine what advice would have been given if she'd contacted them. He's decided it's better to explain his position first. I don't think it helps her case that advice was different in March than the law on Tuesday. He was literally working out where to go once he discovered he had symptoms rather than dotting around the country days after a test, so I have some sympathy for him. I'm confused why the advice wasn't to go to the friend's flat, as a fellow MP the friend could have travelled back to their own constituency instead. If the friend owned the flat and said no, then that would be challenging.

These MPs (and Cummings)make me sick. They are in such a privileged position compared to most of the general public and have the means to isolate and do the sensible thing if they choose to. Are you telling me Gibson isn't receiving expenses/allowances for a second base in London? They shouldn't be able to pick and choose when it suits.

MPs travel from all over the country to assemble- therefore someone should have realised that an mp with symptoms might need to SI away from home - in London. Emergency provisions should have included somewhere to SI or specialist transport to get them home without using public transport! I guess early on- before lockdown, they were still planning on the hoof!

@maggiso

MPs travel from all over the country to assemble- therefore someone should have realised that an mp with symptoms might need to SI away from home - in London. Emergency provisions should have included somewhere to SI or specialist transport to get them home without using public transport! I guess early on- before lockdown, they were still planning on the hoof!

I agree. I would hope provisions like that would now be in place. And I'd also hope the helpline has had more training since then! But at least he had the humility to think "crap... lots of options here, not sure which is best" and took advice from the people he should have taken advice from. It was bad advice, granted, but he did follow the procedure and did what was advised. Maybe he could and should have made a better decision, but we are in a different place now to March. Had MF done the same and phoned the helpline with her situation, the chance she would have been advised to do what she did would be nil, I'd hope... But she admitted that she didn't even seek advice as to what to do.

@GetOffYourHighHorse maybe because on this forum the majority of people wouldn’t regard looking after their own child (even when unwell) as ‘exceptional circumstances’? Travelling 260miles in close proximity with a symptomatic person to a second home is surely more exceptional?

Yes we are in trouble when people’s ‘common sense’ is going for a drive to test their eyesight as advocated by Cummings and Gove!

@maggiso
You would like to think Parliament would have issued a guide on what to do for MPs exhibiting symptoms including provision for somewhere for them to stay. Maybe they hadn’t got this in place by March but by Oct and Ferrier’s journeys this should be in place?

'maybe because on this forum the majority of people wouldn’t regard looking after their own child (even when unwell) as ‘exceptional circumstances’? '

I can't be the only person on mn where my dc are a priority and of course if I thought myself plus dh may be about to need hospital treatment then I would want to be near my family who could care for the dc. Absolutely exceptional circumstances. Some on mn seem to think as London is full of childminders they could have made do. Conveniently forgetting the fact if anyone had been positive that would have been impossible anyway.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'maybe because on this forum the majority of people wouldn’t regard looking after their own child (even when unwell) as ‘exceptional circumstances’? '

I can't be the only person on mn where my dc are a priority and of course if I thought myself plus dh may be about to need hospital treatment then I would want to be near my family who could care for the dc. Absolutely exceptional circumstances. Some on mn seem to think as London is full of childminders they could have made do. Conveniently forgetting the fact if anyone had been positive that would have been impossible anyway.

But most ordinary people would have done the opposite. Stay in your home and arrange for a family member to come and stay if they really needed help to care for DC. With all the support at his hands from No. 10 I guarantee he could have had help in London if he chose to.

@GetOffYourHighHorse ah yes of course Cummings is a better parent than everyone else for ‘prioritising’ his child and putting them in close proximity in an enclosed space with a symptomatic person for a 5 hour journey. What were the rest of the country thinking following the instruction ‘to stay at home’.

In March one of my young DC had a temperature so we hunkered down to self-isolate for a fortnight. I didn’t immediately leap in the car to go and stay with family across the country (we have none locally although I read that Cummings does have family in London) as that would have been irresponsible.

Do you honestly believe what you post?
While we are at it would you go for a drive if you thought your eyesight seemed ‘weird’ that day? Especially on a day when the public had been instructed that no non-essential journeys should take place?

'Do you honestly believe what you post?'

Yes I do thanks. If myself plus dh both had the potential to require hospital treatment and my parents had separate accommodation we could use then yes, I'd have driven there to self isolate as they did to ensure dc had close family if needed.

Glad you 'hunkered down', not sure why you think everyone has the exact same circumstances as you.

Anyway. Back to Ferrier, has she stood down yet do we know?

I wonder if MF will do a Fiona Onasanya

@GetOffYourHighHorse I can quite understand they panicked and bolted to family. If they had been upfront and apologised (as other people have) this would be a footnote rather than a discussion point. Instead they chose to omit the truth from their publicised accounts. The subsequent gaslighting by Johnson and the cabinet that Cummings somehow faced more exceptional circumstances than any of the public who followed the ‘stay at home’ message, sometimes at deep personal cost, is why this is still an issue.

I don’t think everyone had the same personal circumstances as me, a great many people had it a lot worse than me during lockdown. And as it was I was homeschooling while wfh with a recent family bereavement so it was far from a comfortable time personally.

@Getoffyourhighorse - You didn’t answer the question - would you drive your car with your young child in to test your eyesight as Cummings did?

'If they had been upfront and apologised '

Yes they maybe should have said sorry for any upset caused but it was exceptional circumstances and the welfare of their dc was their priority.

'You didn’t answer the question - would you drive your car with your young child in to test your eyesight as Cummings did?'

Hmm, not to test my eye sight per se but if like him I'd been ill for a few days and wasn't sure if I was up to a long drive, I may go on a shorter drive to test the water and see if I could manage perhaps.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

Your loyalty to the conservative party is astounding but as i said to you on another thread, the Cummings debacle, the support from Johnson, the cabinet (and people like you) is why there has been a collapse of trust in the Government, making controlling CV far harder, many people just don't take the conservatives seriously.

You seem to be suggesting that someone operating at the heart of government couldn't have got any childcare???? be serious.

The only sensible thing for Cummings to do was to say either: 1. sorry, I obviously broke the spirit if not the letter of the guidelines and I'll resign; OR, 2. I broke the guidelines because they were stupid and I'm very sorry to have subjected you all to them and I'll resign.

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/whataboutery-pandemic-margaret-ferrier-debate-shows-euan-mccolm-2992082%3famp

'Your loyalty to the conservative party'

I'm not loyal to it, I'd happily vote Labour if I think they can do any better.

'You seem to be suggesting that someone operating at the heart of government couldn't have got any childcare???? be serious.'

No no I'm sure they could usually get childcare. However, in a pandemic when everyone is socially distancing things are different you see. They had separate accommodation, parents nearby should they be needed. I'd say the same if Sir Keith himself had done it.

Ferrier on the other hand should step down and be fined.

Everyone is in agreement that Ferrier should step down as an MP and be fined. Sturgeon quickly made her position clear that she thinks she should go. All except MF it would seem by her inaction!

Cummings should have at least apologised. It is damaging to public trust in this administration that Johnson and cabinet members condoned his dubious behaviour.

Nice summary @GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly.

@GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly

Everyone is in agreement that Ferrier should step down as an MP and be fined. Sturgeon quickly made her position clear that she thinks she should go. All except MF it would seem by her inaction!

Cummings should have at least apologised. It is damaging to public trust in this administration that Johnson and cabinet members condoned his dubious behaviour.

Yes, this! MF is being both DC and BJ in this scenario. Which isn't a good look...

Wonder if we'll hear her "side" at any point? I can imagine her at her dining table trying out drafts of her rose garden speech, and crumpling them up as utterly unconvincing...

@GetOffYourHighHorse On the Dominic Cummings thread which ive linked above you said the MSM needed to move on after five days, despite Cummings not apologising. Do you feel the same about this?

GetOffYourHighHorse Thu 28-May-20 09:51:11
'There is no excuse whatsoever for his actions.'

Fine if that's your opinion and many agree. The fact is the media are relentlessly reporting on this, ironically saying it detracts from the crisis and government plans. Yes it does detract, because it is all the MSM are going on about!! If they cared about the health of the nation rather than political point scoring they would think right it's been 5 days, we've made our point let's get on with unbiased reporting now

This kind of hypocrisy is why i no longer give a fuck.

@HeIenaDove

This kind of hypocrisy is why i no longer give a fuck.

I'm with you 100%.

This was me on Friday.

Waiting at a bus stop with a disposable mask on in the rain for a bus that never showed,
a. I dont drive. Do i put my umbrella up in the wind while im waiting and risk it breaking = mask will get wet if brolly does break.

Not bother and same result =mask will get wet rendering it useless.

Both on the 16th June and today i attempted to catch a bus that never showed up. In between those two dates i havent used the bus "service" Both times i was wearing a disposable mask. They arent fucking free. If they expect us to spunk money on these things to wear them on public transport they need to improve the latter. I cant wear the reusable ones.

Passengers in chauffeur driven cars are exempt but its a lot easier to put one on just before getting into their fucking car. Unlike catching a bus in the rain and the wind, where you have to put it on before you leave home or struggle to put it on outside in the rain.

I dont have the privilege that Stanley Johnson has yet he has been caught twice without one and i bet he doesnt have to struggle to catch a non existent bus in the rain and wind.