What hope do we have when MPs can't follow the rules?

[mrshoho]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-54379026

She travelled from London by train from Scotland to London and back knowing she was positive! And visited parliament! no excuse for this.

'so no I'd say cramming into a car and driving 260miles across the country was outside the official guidance.'

Sigh. But it was investigated and found that no rules were broken, it was exceptional circumstances, remember? You can not agree all you like but that doesn't change the facts.

It's so funny really. Ferrier does something a million times worse and all some can say well is ThankyouNicola is a real boss because she told her off and gave her the boot! As if there was any other possible outcome to someone going on public transport with covid. Are all the snp a bit thick or just this one?

Like it or not, the Cummings situation was so significant, leading as it did to a 20 point drop in government approval ratings and dozens of Johnson's own MPs writing to him to demand Cummings get the boot, that it's inevitably going to come up every time an MP or person with political influence breaks the rules and/or does something irresponsible. Which this fucking idiot certainly did.

Legally there's nothing to prevent her from staying on as an MP, unless enough of her constituents want to get rid of her, but I certainly wouldn't want her as my representative! I can't say I really give a shit whether someone has 6 or 7 people round at their house, but this is completely another level.

While I find this outrageous, I find it odd that people would let it affect what they do.

Surely you either agree with the rules/guidelines and keep to them because you think they are a good idea, or you don't and do your own thing regardless.

@amicissimma

While I find this outrageous, I find it odd that people would let it affect what they do.

Surely you either agree with the rules/guidelines and keep to them because you think they are a good idea, or you don't and do your own thing regardless.

The human psyche doesn't work like that. One rule for us, one rule for them delegitimises the rules and that impacts on some people's behaviour. Especially when it's rules where the communal attitude and observance matters.

In this instance, she may well face criminal sanction and she is at least being dropped by her party, there's not been any gaslighting from half the Cabinet or the Attorney General bringing her office into disrepute. So it isn't the worst example we've had and may not be the most influential. However, if Ferrier stays in post as an MP, which she might if not enough of her constituents try and remove her and/or if she isn't charged, there's a real risk it's going to have an impact on the behaviour of others.

I won't let it change my behaviour. I believe, fundamentally, in following the rules. I do reserve the right to be very angry that people with such visible societal presence are flouting the rules and then saying 'Sorry....my mistake....'

I don't see why it has to be either/or with Cummings, Ferrier etc. It's not a race to the bottom. All of the transgressions have been wrong when they are by people should know the rules. It shouldn't be about party politics.

What she did was shameful and if she had any shame she would have resigned by now.

I think there is something in what a pp said about thinking the virus situation can't be as serious because these people in the know carry about as normal and don't seem worried. All of them do damage to the message that we are supposedly at a critical point in controlling the virus.

@mrshoho

I think there is something in what a pp said about thinking the virus situation can't be as serious because these people in the know carry about as normal and don't seem worried. All of them do damage to the message that we are supposedly at a critical point in controlling the virus.

Yeah. There were people who lost trust in the messaging post Cummings not because of anger, but because they thought if the PM and most of the Cabinet were going to wade in saying it was ok, then they must have been exaggerating before. Ferrier isn't as powerful or significant but it's a drip drip effect. If someone who went on a fucking train for hundreds of miles knowing full well she had covid still sits as an MP and/or doesn't face criminal sanction, the outcome of that could well be more people thinking maybe it wasn't that dangerous after all.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'so no I'd say cramming into a car and driving 260miles across the country was outside the official guidance.'

Sigh. But it was investigated and found that no rules were broken, it was exceptional circumstances, remember? You can not agree all you like but that doesn't change the facts.

It's so funny really. Ferrier does something a million times worse and all some can say well is ThankyouNicola is a real boss because she told her off and gave her the boot! As if there was any other possible outcome to someone going on public transport with covid. Are all the snp a bit thick or just this one?

And you can sigh all you like. The only exceptional thing about the episode is that Johnson didn't even admonish Cummings:

Cummings also acted recklessly -putting his child along with him in an enclosed space with a symptomatic person for a 5 hr drive instead of following the instruction to self-isolate at home/ they put health professionals and patients in the NE hospital they visited at risk and then he drove a car to 'test his weird eyesight' with a route to a local beauty spot on his wife's birthday when we had all been instructed to stay at home at Easter:
www.itv.com/news/2020-04-09/public-urged-to-stay-at-home-over-easter-weekend

I mean who in their right mind would tell their boss, let alone the entire country this whilst in the midst of a national lockdown, and get the response, 'Yes, in your case that was entirely reasonable behaviour'.

Sturgeon has done the right thing sacking her. The police should investigate Ferrier's actions. She should do the right thing and offer her resignation.
The same should have happened over Cummings or at the very least an apology. I don't see anyone defending Ferrier but I can see posters defending Cummings and minimising the massive outcry there was about it, don't forget at the time people were making great personal sacrifices following the 'Stay at Home' rules, missing births, deaths & funerals.

The Barnard Castle trip also potentially put at risk any other road users, given that by Cummings' account he had concerns about his health and fitness that day. He had no business endangering either his own child or anyone else unless of course the eye testing excuse was a load of shit.

I thought Dominic Cummings displayed massive arrogance, as if the truth be told I think they wanted a weekend break.

MF, on the other hand, is a criminal. Just read that trump spread Covid to at least a dozen people at the presidential debate, so it shows how catching it is. This woman travelled on public transport and went to the HoC, and now it turns out also visited a beauty salon and a gym. She is an utter selfish disgrace.

'The Barnard Castle trip also potentially put at risk any other road users'

They isolated in a house and on their drive to BC they kept their distance and didnt interact with anyone.They socially distanced. It is amusing on mn that people are so disgusted by 'snitches' yet the only way we know he was there is because a couple of people saw him from a distance and snitched!

So come on mn, do we snitch or not. Make your minds up.

Ferrier is completely different she didn't socially distance. She did the very opposite. She knowingly put others at risk on public transport and a load of other places whilst positive and I hope she faces charges.

Cummings situation took place when we were being told to stay at home. Not a bit of wonder someone would be surprised to see the Kingmaker not in Westminster at that time.

Both were wrong in their actions. Cummings should have been sacked but wasn't.

But Ferrier was POSITIVE !!

People with hiv who knowingly have unprotected sex can be prosecuted, and this woman - in the full knowledge that she had coronavirus - travelled on the tube and on a long-distance train.

Those she had dinner with are now self isolating. This woman certainly had no regard for the health and safety of others.

There’s a real danger here that others may now be infected as a result of her actions.

She boldly declared her understanding of the need to self isolate with symptoms.

@GetOffYourHighHorse except for when Cummings family visited a hospital and tried to call a taxi for their return journey. You are right that it was whistleblowers that alerted the public to his stay at a second home as neither Cummings nor his wife mentioned their trip to the NE in their published accounts. If it was all above board I wonder whyever not? But we are going over old ground now. Cummings should have apologised or been sacked.

As for snitching if my neighbours have a Sunday dinner for 7 instead of 6 it’s hardly headline news as they aren’t the chief advisor to No. 10 broadcasting the message to ‘stay at home’ into people’s houses. If Cummings had been upfront about his actions (and if they were all so ‘reasonable’ why wouldn’t you be?) no ‘snitching’ would have been required.

As for Ferrier I can’t believe there’s not a greater outcry about it (perhaps because of the Trump coverage?) It’s a prime example of someone being too selfish to follow the guidelines because it would impact on their own plans. Johnson should be publicly decrying an MP who has has endangered other people and broken the rules they are asking the public to follow.

@GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly yes it's interesting that Johnson has stayed quiet on the topic. I hope it's not for sinister reasons i.e. most MPs are breaking the rules but she was just the one stupid enough to be caught, I suspect it's because it would be seen as wading into "the Scottish problem" and he's probably busy enough without stirring up that particular hornets nest more than it already is.

Johnson has stayed quiet on the topic for the obvious reason that if he says anything, he's inviting the Cummings comparison. I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire but I can't blame him here.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'The Barnard Castle trip also potentially put at risk any other road users'

They isolated in a house and on their drive to BC they kept their distance and didnt interact with anyone.They socially distanced. It is amusing on mn that people are so disgusted by 'snitches' yet the only way we know he was there is because a couple of people saw him from a distance and snitched!

So come on mn, do we snitch or not. Make your minds up.

Ferrier is completely different she didn't socially distance. She did the very opposite. She knowingly put others at risk on public transport and a load of other places whilst positive and I hope she faces charges.

You have misunderstood. Cummings took to the road when he wasn't confident in his health and ability to drive. It isn't covid that was the main risk there, it was causing an accident.

@IrmaFayLear

But Ferrier was POSITIVE !!

People with hiv who knowingly have unprotected sex can be prosecuted, and this woman - in the full knowledge that she had coronavirus - travelled on the tube and on a long-distance train.

@IrmaFayLear this is a rather throw away comment with no context - rather stigmatising to people living with HIV generally.

The vast majority (in England at least) can actually - legally - have unprotected sex if they wished to and not inform their partners as they transmit it / pass it on. Prosecutions can happen but only for those who meet certain criteria which include actually transmitting the virus to others and this must be proven.

^Sturgeon also gave a detailed timeline of how news of Ferrier’s rule breaches emergerged.^
^“My understanding is that the SNP at Westminster knew on Wednesday that she had tested positive, but believed that she had taken a test once she had arrived back in Scotland,” the SNP leader said. “I understand that she had informed colleagues on Monday evening that she was travelling back to Scotland because a family member might have been unwell.^
^“It was not until yesterday – and this information came through the Commons test-and-trace mechanism – that colleagues realised she had taken the test before travelling to London and then travelled back having been told that she was positive.”^

Above taken from The Guardian. So it seems she lied about a family member being taken ill and fled back to Scotland. Mislead her colleagues into thinking her test was taken Wednesday and only when the track and trace flagged up at HofC did she come clean as the date of the test track as logged. Very deceitful and no regard for anyone else's health and safety.

If she refuses to go I wonder if her constituents might try and remove her? I would be exceedingly pissed off if my MP pulled this stunt.

HIVpos, I’m sorry, I don’t know the exact rules (although I would be mightily angry, nay wrathful , if someone had unprotected sex with me knowing full well they were hiv positive).

Irmafaylear What if they had HPV? Would you feel the same? It happens all the time.

I’d feel the same way about anything communicable that someone knows they have. It is the ultimate act of selfishness.