What hope do we have when MPs can't follow the rules?

[mrshoho]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-54379026

She travelled from London by train from Scotland to London and back knowing she was positive! And visited parliament! no excuse for this.

From @Choconuttolata list of known Covidiots in Control we have:

Dr Catherine Calderwood - resigned
Neil Ferguson - resigned from SAGE
Dominic Cummings - No apology and after holding his own press conference at No 10 inexplicably still runningthecountry in post
Stanley Johnson - making no attempt to follow any rules whatsoever, obviously pays no heed to his son
Margaret Ferrier - apologises and has been called on by Sturgeon to
resign
Jeremy Corbyn - apologises for attending a dinner party with 8 in
attendance rather than 6
Danny Kruger - apologised for not wearing a mask on the train

What's Johnson got to say about it or has he ducked back into the fridge?

[quote GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly]@NotAnActualSheep DC wasn't symptomatic nor was his child but his wife WAS when they undertook the journey. So he put himself and their child into a small contained space with a symptomatic person to undertake a 5hour trip rather than his wife self-isolate at home which is what they told the rest of the public to do. Reasonable decision making?

What about the risk to the hospital workers and patients that his wife and child came into contact with in the NE when they chose to travel away from London (the epicentre of the disease at the time). If what they did was all above board why didn't she mention that they'd relocated in her published account of experiencing the virus, seems a pretty significant element to miss out?

But what I really object to is that Johnson told us that this was reasonable behaviour. When the public inundated their MPs about Cummings conduct Johnson and co high handedly told us to 'move on'. Not even an apology. As people missed births and deaths & some people spent weeks alone.

Ferrier's behaviour has been dangerous and Sturgeon has called on her to resign as she did when her chief medical officer set a poor example of behaviour that was damaging to the public health message.

Spot the difference?[/quote]
I entirely agree that the responses of the "bosses" are worlds apart, but that doesn't relate to the severity of the action. I still maintain that MF was worse than DC on the grounds of the number of people affected by her actions. Though both were, IMO bad enough to be sacked (or the equivalent).

I don't think it needs to be a competition. Selfish behaviour by both, both should have had the decency to resign immediately. Selfish people often take a long time to do the decent thing though, if they ever do it at all.

Thing is, this woman was utterly wrong but what enrages me further is that really stupid people then use it as an excuse not to follow the rules themselves, as happened with Cummins. Just because some arrogant arsehole does the wrong thing it doesn’t mean it’s then ok for everyone else to do the wrong thing, but people will. Because they are stupid.

@mrshoho

But according to this bbc article it seems she would have broken the rules in Scotland. Why would she have notified the local police if she hadn't broken any rules?

I'm not sure that that BBC article is quite correct, though. This guidance refers to fines, but it is just for breaking up gatherings etc and for businesses complying with "covid safe" stuff. The only reference to the £480 I can see is in relation to quarantining after travel . It refers to self isolation etc, but is definitely relating to travel rather than symptomatic/test related quarantine.

This is old (last week!) so may have changed, but I can't find anything on the SG website to say it has. SG was very reluctant to use the "stick" of fines, as it would impact the vulnerable the most.

I think MF reported herself to the police on the assumption that she had not broken the law in either England or Scotland (given the date of her test). They may disagree, and morally, I think most people would agree she should resign (or do whatever MPs have to do). Though as time goes by its looking less likely that she will, and will do a Natalie McGarry by just sitting as an independent until the next election. Nice.

Agreed both acted in their own self-interest. But Cummings is the only one out of those associated with the Government Covid response that failed to offer an apology (or resignation).

@MRex

I don't think it needs to be a competition. Selfish behaviour by both, both should have had the decency to resign immediately. Selfish people often take a long time to do the decent thing though, if they ever do it at all.

Yes, I agree!

I'm also not keen on the "witch hunting" around at the moment, basically demanding she is dragged around the streets being whipped for her transgression. It was stupid, and as MPs rightly or wrongly are held to a higher standard than the rest of us, she should lose her job (just as she would if she was "employed" by anyone other than Boris Johnson on grounds of h & s / gross misconduct or whatever). But then she should be able to get on with her life, just feeling a bit embarrassed and guilty. I doubt she'd struggle to find another job, frankly, so I can't feel too bad for her. And I hope she recovers quickly, as I would hope for anyone. Even orange Americans.

thanks @NotAnActualSheep . That does make sense.

'Ferrier's behaviour has been dangerous and Sturgeon has called on her to resign as she did when her chief medical officer set a poor example of behaviour that was damaging to the public health message.'

Why are all the #ThankyouNicolas desperately comparing this to Cummings?

Ferriers should be arrested for what she did imo, going on public transport after spouting a load of bollocks in Westminster when she knew she was positive. Is she just incredibly thick? Cummings had self isolated near his parents in case they needed childcare. It is not remotely comparable.

Sturgeon of course had to publicly criticise her.

Maybe Cummings paid her to do it.

No ‘desperation’ in this comparison, there are parallels to be drawn between both Covidiots behaviour and their bosses responses to it.

Both Ferrier and Cummings actions are damaging to adherence to public health guidelines. But then Johnson doesn’t know the rules anyway so it does make it rather hard for him to hold them to account.

Sturgeon has told Ferrier to resign, has Johnson gone on record about it yet?

'Sturgeon has told Ferrier to resign, has Johnson gone on record about it yet?'

He tends to be a bit more professional than Sturgeon and doesn’t mud sling like she does. If this was a Tory she'd be doing wobbly head rants all over the place.

There aren't any parallels to draw. Ferrier travelled on public transport to London with symptoms. She then mingled in Westminster then returned again on public transport once she knew she was positive. This put any member of the public at very high risk. As I said I hope the police get involved.

Getting on public transport when you know you are positive is at best selfish, and at worst criminal. It was a long-distance journey. She must have breathed on the guard, the buffet person, other passengers and touched various surfaces and used the toilet. Shame on her.

@GetOffYourHighHorse 'He tends to be a bit more professional than Sturgeon and doesn’t mud sling like she does.' Do you really think Johnson is renowned for his professionalism?

Yes Ferrier acted recklessly and moreso than Cummings. However, Cummings also acted recklessly -putting his child along with him in an enclosed space with a symptomatic person for a 5 hr drive instead of self-isolating at home/ putting health professionals and patients in the NE hospital they visited at risk and driving a car to 'test his weird eyesight' when we had all been told to stay at home at Easter:
www.itv.com/news/2020-04-09/public-urged-to-stay-at-home-over-easter-weekend

I mean who in their right mind would tell their boss, let alone the entire country this, and get the response 'Yes, in your case that was entirely reasonable behaviour'.

The public like to at least get an apology when people associated with the Government don't meet the standards they are responsible for setting.

'Do you really think Johnson is renowned for his professionalism?'

When it comes to Sturgeon's constant sniping yes. He just ignores her and her goading and laughs at Blackford's monologues.

'However, Cummings also acted recklessly -putting his child along with him in an enclosed space '

Same household . Wherever sat in a car or on a sofa the risk will be practically the same..

How embarrassing.

Is she known for being thick or a rebel?

What was she thinking?

I'm no fan of the government but this is in another league of potential virus spreading behaviour from Cummings.

And I thought he was bad.

I reckon she will just sit as an independent until the next election, pocketing the salary and perks. She should hang her head in shame.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'However, Cummings also acted recklessly -putting his child along with him in an enclosed space '

Same household . Wherever sat in a car or on a sofa the risk will be practically the same..

Well let's refer to the Public Health England blog on that point from 20/02/20 publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2020/02/20/what-is-self-isolation-and-why-is-it-important/

I live with other people, how do I self-isolate?
It is important that you separate yourself from other people in your home and if you share facilities like toilets and bathrooms, regular cleaning will be required.

You should stay in a well-ventilated room with a window that can be opened, separate from other people in your home.

In the advice sheet, there are specific recommendations in the case that a separate bathroom is not available, if you live in shared accommodation, and if you share a kitchen with others, and these should be followed closely.

What if I have other responsibilities, such as work and taking care of family?
Unfortunately, if you have COVID-19 - or are at higher risk of being infected - we must prioritise reducing the risk of transmitting the disease to others, particularly to people who may be more vulnerable such as older people or people with health conditions.

During an outbreak, it is important that we all do everything we can to reduce the risk of further spread of the infection. This will require understanding and support from employers, family members and friends.

Talk to those around you, including your employer, about the importance of self-isolation to reduce the risk of spreading infection at work. If you are well, you can work from home.

Make plans with your family and friends on how to manage shopping, dropping children to schools and events

Ask people to not visit your house for your duration; if you need a healthcare or care visit at home during this time, inform them that you are self-isolating in advance so that they can follow their local employers’ guidance.

@GetOffYourHighHorse so no I'd say cramming into a car and driving 260miles across the country was outside the official guidance. Let's not forget among those calling for Cummings resignation were over 40 Tory MPs. Douglas Ross under secretary of state for Scotland resigned his ministerial position over it. It wasn't just what he did but the Cabinet's whitewash afterwards that caused upset. Johnson lost a lot of credibility over his handling of Cummings escapades.

It's clear to me mf behaviour much much worse than literrallt any other mp of any other political stripe.
It really is indegensible.
In fact i am not sure that we have had another case of a mp with both symptoms AND a postive test getting on public transport and going into the HOC like this have we?
Plenty of minor rule breaking, visiting parents, not wearing masks, going to second homes, more than 6 at a dinner party etc that i am personally not that bothered with ( understand others might be) and none by someone actually knowingly WITH a postive test.
To do what this snp mp has done for no good particular reason ( care for another person for example) is unprecedented .
Snp supporters seem to be trying to defend/ deflect but it is indefensible

@Sashagabadon Snp supporters seem to be trying to defend/ deflect but it is indefensible
What where? Pretty much everything I've read on here and social media and from politicans completely denounces her actions? Hopefully she will see her position is untenable and resign.

It makes me furious. Here I am, refusing to see my parents with my family, because we'll become a group of 7. So we leave someone at home, or wait until the children are at school, or DH is at work, etc., to keep to the Rule of 6. Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn is having a dinner party for 8 and 'won't be prosecuted because we didn't have a chance to educate him' and a SNP MP travels when she knows she has symptoms, then after a positive test. How is that fair??

[quote GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly]**@Sashagabadon* Snp supporters seem to be trying to defend/ deflect but it is indefensible*
What where? Pretty much everything I've read on here and social media and from politicans completely denounces her actions? Hopefully she will see her position is untenable and resign.[/quote]
They do denounce her actions ( they can't really defend her and remain credible!) But with plenty of whataboutery, cummings, corbyn blah blah.
My point is that yes others have broken rules but no where this level. In sheer numbers she could have infected hundreds of people. More on the tube.
Corbyn, cummings et al are not comparable.

If you are referring to my posts I am not a supporter of the SNP. It is not whataboutery to point out the level of trangression from Cummings - it was so serious he held a bloody press conference from No. 10 for goodness sake!
Ferrier and Cummings both acted recklessly. They both should have been denounced by their bosses. Both should resign over their damage to public trust. I think Johnson should condemn Ferrier's actions as he seems quite ready to blame the public but he can't due to his previous inaction over Cummings.