What is reasonable for the government to impose on people in the fight against coronavirus.

[Treesofwood]

Most people seem to agree it is reasonable to

1. Prevent people from seeing people they love.
2. Prevent people from going to school.
3. Prevent people from going to the theatre.
4. Force people to wear cloth over most of their face even if they don't want to in public.
5. Stop people from hugging.
6. Stop people from working.
7. Stop children from playing with their friends in the park.
8. Force people who are well into self isolation for two weeks.
9. Ban people from having sex with people they don't live with.

10. Stop (just) adult children from going back to their family home from university.

I would have never believed someone who told me a year ago that these laws/"guidance" would be in place.

There are some things that it is not seen as reasonable for the government to do, despite the fact it would save lives.

But I would argue that most of the things above would have been laughed off as ridiculous in 2019. After all we don't live in a police state.

Where will it end? How much further down the line will we go. How many more things will we lose? Bodily autonomy? It will definitely head that way if some MPs have their way.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'That is simply not true.'

So you're telling me someone with a life threatening condition say, a perforated ulcer or a heart attack or sepsis weren't admitted because they were keeping beds free for covid patients? All sent on their way to die?

Opas, routine surgery and screening were postponed. Of course some delays to screening will lead to missed cases but it's sadly a balancing act isn't it and limiting the risk to inpatients and outpatients.

You said all essential urgent stuff has carried on. It has not.

Some of it has, I'm sure nobody was turned away from a&e mid heart attack but lots of other urgent stuff was postponed or cancelled entirely.

It is a balancing act and unfortunately I think they put far too much weight on covid and now we're doing to have a good few years where people are dying unnecessarily of things that they wouldn't be had they been treated in good time. Even small, unimportant (you might think) things can lead to bigger issues that need more time and money spending on them. Delaying treatment is a false economy. And yes, some wards were empty. Not because they were keeping them open for covid but because they had nobody to treat since treatment was cancelled.

Oh it was on the radio. Right. Of course I don't think they all agree however you said they'd said 'there's a clique and you're either listened to or not'. Which is not quite the same as professional disagreements.

It’s all fucked and for some damn phoney war.

'No it will bully people into getting it by taking their choice away, their freedom away'

Why would anyone need bullying? Don't you want it so we can get rid of covid. Then you can stop these dreadful hardships, get back to the pub after 10pm and meet up with more than 6 people!!

Aren't vaccinations a good thing?

@GetOffYourHighHorse

Oh it was on the radio. Right. Of course I don't think they all agree however you said they'd said 'there's a clique and you're either listened to or not'. Which is not quite the same as professional disagreements.

So now highly respected BBC investigative journalism is rubbished because it doesn't suit your world view?

Why do you find it so difficult to believe that Govt would find the views of certain scientists more compelling than others? and that those ignored might be rather annoyed?

Leaks from Downing Street also say that Johnson surrounds himself with a small clique of advisors and most of the cabinet don't have a clue what is going on.

I believe this has been talked about on the Liaison committee recently & has upset leading backbenchers.

Why would anyone need bullying? Don't you want it so we can get rid of covid. Then you can stop these dreadful hardships, get back to the pub after 10pm and meet up with more than 6 people!!

these restrictions aren't working though, 9 weeks in and infection rates in Manchester & the north higher than ever.

Indeed across the UK infections are going one way.

Government aren't carrying the population with them, trust has eroded & we all know why.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'No it will bully people into getting it by taking their choice away, their freedom away'

Why would anyone need bullying? Don't you want it so we can get rid of covid. Then you can stop these dreadful hardships, get back to the pub after 10pm and meet up with more than 6 people!!

Aren't vaccinations a good thing?

Because some people don't want it for various reasons and that is their choice. It's pretty much bribery saying you can only go in pubs if you're vaccinated. I don't like that.

Vaccinations are a good thing but a lot of people feel this one has been rushed.

Yawn!

It's not forever and the alternative is thousands of unnecessary deaths, and serious illness for many people.

I'm also sick and tired of all these people with such fragile 'mental health' they can't cope with six months of restrictions in the middle of a pandemic....the clue is in the word pandemic, folks. Not communism, socialism or any other nonsense. We are a democracy and we remain so. A democracy doesn't mean everyone has the same mindset, but it does mean we are a majority. We have to just suck it up and suffer a little longer.

'these restrictions aren't working though, 9 weeks in and infection rates in Manchester & the north higher than ever.'

Well without restrictions it could well be much worse! Maybe you think it's all a conspiracy to destroy hospitality and upset people. What possible reason would they have to do that? Look at July and aug, things were pretty much normal but as rates go up, then so do restrictions, it's very simple.

'Because some people don't want it for various reasons and that is their choice'

Oh we're not anti vaccers as well as 'civil liberties' scaremongerers are we?

berated him for not getting a taxi and he laughed and said ‘there are about 100 people on the street, mum.’

The trials our youngsters nowadays are having to face, walking home from the pub. Tragic

The point was the 100s of people on the streets, not the having to get a taxi. You know that though.

I'm also sick and tired of all these people with such fragile 'mental health' they can't cope with six months of restrictions in the middle of a pandemic....the clue is in the word pandemic, folks. Not communism, socialism or any other nonsense. We are a democracy and we remain so. A democracy doesn't mean everyone has the same mindset, but it does mean we are a majority. We have to just suck it up and suffer a little longer.

I'm sick and tired of people with no empathy, who don't think that someone else's situation might be different to theirs.

There's nothing democratic about forcing through laws without debate.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'these restrictions aren't working though, 9 weeks in and infection rates in Manchester & the north higher than ever.'

Well without restrictions it could well be much worse! Maybe you think it's all a conspiracy to destroy hospitality and upset people. What possible reason would they have to do that? Look at July and aug, things were pretty much normal but as rates go up, then so do restrictions, it's very simple.

'Because some people don't want it for various reasons and that is their choice'

Oh we're not anti vaccers as well as 'civil liberties' scaremongerers are we?

Er no I've already said as much if you bothered to actually read.

It was more restrictive in WW2 and after the war, things did change back.

getoff the point is that the streets, buses and trains are heaving at 10pm - which is supposedly what the new closing time was to try to avoid.

@DipSwimSwoosh

Stop me and my children from visiting a dentist. Stop my children from visiting a library.

It's madness. I resent the above, wearing a mask, and giving my phone number if I want to buy a cup of tea in a cafe.

This is just one example of how me, me, me our society has become.

You do realise that your demand to visit your dentist, relies upon a dentist (a human being) being willing to put themselves in front of not just your, and your child's mouth to check your teeth and maybe do fillings which cause a potential mist of virus into their consulting room from which they can be infected, but dozens of other people who also want the same.

They had to temporarily stop dental treatments during lockdown as it was a high risk intervention, but they are now restarting clinics, in controlled conditions. My friend had a filling done as an emergency appointment during lockdown.

It isn't just about you.

The track and trace app does not require giving personal details to have a cup of tea. It is completely anonymised.

There's nothing democratic about forcing through laws without debate

The Government has been responding to available data and working with eminent scientists and epidemiologists to quickly adjust existing regulations, in the moment.

There would soon be people on here moaning about how slow the government is to respond, why aren't they using the data, why do an all or nothing lockdown of the country when they could control things in localised areas of infection (um yes, that's what they've been doing).

Amazing how many experts have suddenly emerged through MN who could manage this pandemic so much better. It's tedious.

@Namenic

It was more restrictive in WW2 and after the war, things did change back.

Why do people keep trying to compare this situation with 75 years ago? It's in no way comparable.

My father is in a care home with advanced dementia, now deteriorating rapidly. I can only see him through a window. He is dying now and will die alone without family present.

Linking elective procedures to corona restrictions is false - because you can always have a medical treatment exemption. Ie - you can have lockdown but be allowed to go to your medical/mental health clinic or procedure.

In fact - restrictions that reduce community transmission should increase the likelihood that they go ahead (as fewer staff isolating or diverted to deal with corona).

Dementedma- that is very sad. I know for hospitals, there can be fast-track packages for people at the end of their lives so that they can be cared for at home. Is there a possibility for that?

Brazen - why not compare it? It was a democracy before the war and then a democracy after. The war was way worse - they had conscription. My dad is from one of the colonies and British imposed rationing and curfew even after the war. Other democracies like nz and aus have implemented strict corona restrictions.

Sometimes restrictions can enable more freedom.

[quote JKRowlingIsMyQueen]@GetOffYourHighHorse never said it's okay, I am correcting your fear mongering "over 40 year olds will die from this virus" bs[/quote]
The press have a lot to answer for here. There is so much scaremongering.

We're also hearing so much about "long covid" and yet, I don't think there is yet any substantive medical evidence that the incidence of post-viral complications is higher with Covid than with other viruses. I have a friend who had pneumonia with a bad cold a few years back. I've known someone who got post-viral fatigue after flu. And so many of the long Covid symptoms could also be attributed to other causes... anxiety and depression, for example.

Namenic
It was more restrictive in WW2 and after the war, things did change back.
Why do people keep trying to compare this situation with 75 years ago? It's in no way comparable.

Writing off the most impactful world event as WWII as just something that happened 75 years ago and not a useful comparison is really depressing.

Maybe read up about how people's liberties were removed, how people's lives were decimated by loss, injury and poverty as a consequence of the War, and you start to gain a real understanding of how it impacted everyday life for years, and that the measures we are being told we need to do to contain the spread of this disease is a spit in the ocean by comparison. People objecting to not being able to have a holiday in Lanzerote "because they really need a break" and missing their Costa Coffee or their 10pm social event, need to consider they have grown up with those expectations, but they don't benefit from those liberties as if by magic, it has happened because of the sacrifices of those who have gone before them. Now it's our turn.

Universal rejection of infection control leads to a sick population meaning the economy has no chance of recovery. Keeping the disease under control enables us to keep as near to normality as possible.

I'm also sick and tired of all these people with such fragile 'mental health' they can't cope with six months of restrictions in the middle of a pandemic....the clue is in the word pandemic, folks

What a completely vile post. You don't give a toss about people's mental health, but you expect them to care about protecting others in a pandemic, a pandemic that most will survive.

Have you a link please? I find it unbelievable that anyone in SAGE would gossip about 'cliques' like that.

There is over a 100 people I'd find it odd if they didnt.

There is no such thing as 'the science' it's all about interpretation and different scientists have different views