What is reasonable for the government to impose on people in the fight against coronavirus.

[Treesofwood]

Most people seem to agree it is reasonable to

1. Prevent people from seeing people they love.
2. Prevent people from going to school.
3. Prevent people from going to the theatre.
4. Force people to wear cloth over most of their face even if they don't want to in public.
5. Stop people from hugging.
6. Stop people from working.
7. Stop children from playing with their friends in the park.
8. Force people who are well into self isolation for two weeks.
9. Ban people from having sex with people they don't live with.

10. Stop (just) adult children from going back to their family home from university.

I would have never believed someone who told me a year ago that these laws/"guidance" would be in place.

There are some things that it is not seen as reasonable for the government to do, despite the fact it would save lives.

But I would argue that most of the things above would have been laughed off as ridiculous in 2019. After all we don't live in a police state.

Where will it end? How much further down the line will we go. How many more things will we lose? Bodily autonomy? It will definitely head that way if some MPs have their way.

@larrygrylls

Hamster,

Mandated vaccines are a step too far.

However, businesses and schools could impose vaccination (or exemption certificates) as a condition for entry.

To me, that is proportionate.

It may as well be the same thing.

At least one of yesterday's 49 was 40 yesterday. Age range 40 to 80

'am scared of a government not answering to anyone - especially when it appears to be run by non elected or unaccountable people (Whitty and Valance)'

Do you really think they 'run it'? They are independent experts, SAGE isn't just those 2, you do know that? There's about 100 of them.

Now you've just patronisingly said to others 'If you're scared then fine - you are scared and nothing any of us can say will change that', so I'll say the same to you. As you've actually admitted you're scared I can't change that, but I really believe Whitty and Vallance know what they're talking about. It's a shame so many people go along with all the pitch fork waving crap on Twitter and sm.

'At least one of yesterday's 49 was 40 yesterday. Age range 40 to 80'

Doesn't matter apparently. Going to the pub after 10 tops that sorry.

I wonder how many under 40s died of other preventable things yesterday? I bet it's more than one. They don't matter though do they.

Another question...are you ok with Boris Johnson not wearing a mask?

• and not socially distancing?

'Another question...are you ok with Boris Johnson not wearing a mask?'

I've always seen him wearing one in public. If he doesn't he must have a very good reason. We shouldn't question non mask wearers according to mn law because wearing a thin piece of fabric over one's mouth and nose can be intolerable for some. Makes you wonder how the nhs and others manage but there you go.

Do you really think they 'run it'? They are independent experts, SAGE isn't just those 2, you do know that? There's about 100 of them

Yes and according some SAGE members, you are either in the clique that is listened too or you are not

Witty and Vallance are political appointees... indeed the whole of SAGE is set up by the Govt of the day, based on the crisis faced.

Do you know that?

because wearing a thin piece of fabric over one's mouth and nose can be intolerable for some. Makes you wonder how the nhs and others manage but there you go

Perhaps people with these conditions choose not to be surgeons or work on wards that cater for people with infectious disease. There are plenty of roles in the NHS where you ordinarily do not wear ppe. Mine included. Stop judging, it's very ignorant.

So last night I got to see the unintended consequences of a 10pm curfew. DH and I out for a meal with friends we aren't allowed to see in our own house, so after the meal headed for the bus stop at around 10pm. Bus absolutely heaving - prior to this evening buses have been pretty empty - we had to go upstairs, windows shut, quite a hot steamy atmosphere. Sure I had my cloth mask on and most other people had theirs, but not convinced if anyone had the virus that the masks would have been enough to stop everyone getting it and nit everyone was wearing theirs properly.

I was actually in favour of a curfew as thought restricting late night drinking may reduce numbers and numbers are going to be what determines my DCs ongoing education. However having seen the unintended consequences I now believe it needs reviewed and sharpish. A lot of these decisions are being made on the hoof, so they actually need some public feedback to determine if they make sense or not.

I've always seen him wearing one in public. If he doesn't he must have a very good reason

He was in a training centre @Exeter the other day and greeted the brickies with a elbow bump (so less than 2m) and no mask, infact, no one was wearing a mask.
Sure he has had CV so probably not at risk? but its a bad example.

Trust,

That is not really true.

Anyone can home Ed and you will always find a school that does not demand a vaccine. And some businesses will choose not to demand it either.

It will just give everyone a choice as to whether to take certain risks.

Of course it matters trust
They were right to suspend some services at the height of the crisis but things should be up and running now and on catch up. My dh never stopped receiving care for his condition and I have had GP appointments not f2f, cervical smears etc etc. My friend who has breast cancer with secondaries continued to receive regular treatment. So clearly depends on area.
However if we don't have restrictions things could get out if hand again and the NHS won't be able to cope especially with winter coming.

rookie my son called me the other night saying he was walking home from the pub.
I berated him for not getting a taxi and he laughed and said ‘there are about 100 people on the street, mum.’

@Northernsoulgirl45

Of course it matters trust They were right to suspend some services at the height of the crisis but things should be up and running now and on catch up. My dh never stopped receiving care for his condition and I have had GP appointments not f2f, cervical smears etc etc. My friend who has breast cancer with secondaries continued to receive regular treatment. So clearly depends on area. However if we don't have restrictions things could get out if hand again and the NHS won't be able to cope especially with winter coming.

Yes, they should be, but in a lot of cases they are not. There will be people getting a cancer diagnosis now who If they had got it 6 months ago might have been able to beat it, but now they won't, they'll die. Is this fair on them? No. It's not.

All this the NHS won't cope. It doesn't cope on a normal sodding day and that is nobodies fault but the government's. They're not going to cope with the enormous back log of dying people caused by everything they decided to forget about for 6 months. Wards have stood empty ffs. How is that a good use of resources? It's not. It's a fucking shambles.

For every person they've "saved" from Corona how many have they killed?

@larrygrylls

Trust,

That is not really true.

Anyone can home Ed and you will always find a school that does not demand a vaccine. And some businesses will choose not to demand it either.

It will just give everyone a choice as to whether to take certain risks.

No it will bully people into getting it by taking their choice away, their freedom away.

'Yes and according some SAGE members, you are either in the clique that is listened too or you are not'

Have you a link please? I find it unbelievable that anyone in SAGE would gossip about 'cliques' like that.

'wonder how many under 40s died of other preventable things yesterday? I bet it's more than one. They don't matter though do they'

You 'wonder' it's a bit pointless isn't it why not try to find some evidence that that is actually happening. Please don't trawl out 'the nhs has been shut for 6months' twaddle. Some will have had knee replacements and routine stuff cancelled but all essential urgent stuff has carried on. If people have been too scared to ring their gp for advice that is of course regrettable but e consults and hospital referrals have continued.

but all essential urgent stuff has carried on

That is simply not true.

And I can't find out who died yesterday and of what because they do not publish that, only Corona stats.

'berated him for not getting a taxi and he laughed and said ‘there are about 100 people on the street, mum.’

The trials our youngsters nowadays are having to face, walking home from the pub. Tragic.

Trust,

But if a school has a high number of vaccinated children, it takes away the choice of vulnerable children and those living with vulnerable adults.

A vaccine is a choice, being vulnerable is not.

Which is fairer?

@larrygrylls

Trust,

But if a school has a high number of vaccinated children, it takes away the choice of vulnerable children and those living with vulnerable adults.

A vaccine is a choice, being vulnerable is not.

Which is fairer?

Having a choice is always fairer than not having a choice, Larry.

Have they specifically named any groups who cannot have this vaccine?

'That is simply not true.'

So you're telling me someone with a life threatening condition say, a perforated ulcer or a heart attack or sepsis weren't admitted because they were keeping beds free for covid patients? All sent on their way to die?

Opas, routine surgery and screening were postponed. Of course some delays to screening will lead to missed cases but it's sadly a balancing act isn't it and limiting the risk to inpatients and outpatients.

I find it unbelievable that anyone in SAGE would gossip about 'cliques' like that

Why? royals, downing street, whitehouse, even gavin williamson (as defense sec) leak when it suits.

It was on a R4 program about the timeline and govt handling of CV.
Do you think that these 100 members ALL agree? that they are all good friends? the govt then has to decide which grouping, view or clique to believe and act on or not.

Johnson was skeptical/blaise about CV in Feb/March, we all know that, so Downing street took scientific advice that supported their take on things, late lock down, poor supplies of PPE, total lack of concern for care home residents.

Completely agree with you, @Treesofwood. It's very worrying.

I'm not a covid denier, or believer in conspiracy theories, but so many personal freedoms are being swept away and most people are OK with it. If you say that actually, wearing a mask isn't OK, and that you just want to see your parents, you're shrieked at for being a "covidiot" who wants to murder grannies.