What is reasonable for the government to impose on people in the fight against coronavirus.

[Treesofwood]

Most people seem to agree it is reasonable to

1. Prevent people from seeing people they love.
2. Prevent people from going to school.
3. Prevent people from going to the theatre.
4. Force people to wear cloth over most of their face even if they don't want to in public.
5. Stop people from hugging.
6. Stop people from working.
7. Stop children from playing with their friends in the park.
8. Force people who are well into self isolation for two weeks.
9. Ban people from having sex with people they don't live with.

10. Stop (just) adult children from going back to their family home from university.

I would have never believed someone who told me a year ago that these laws/"guidance" would be in place.

There are some things that it is not seen as reasonable for the government to do, despite the fact it would save lives.

But I would argue that most of the things above would have been laughed off as ridiculous in 2019. After all we don't live in a police state.

Where will it end? How much further down the line will we go. How many more things will we lose? Bodily autonomy? It will definitely head that way if some MPs have their way.

@Jrobhatch29 I'd say sharing caring responsibilities would be viable for you after all who doesn't need help when caring for a baby and older dc. It would be my interpretation anyway.

Jrobhatch29 I would agree with PP. Informal childcare, esp with three on your own all day.

It is ridiculous comparing the temporary reduction in freedom of liberty to counteract an existential threat in a democracy to the deliberate stamping out of liberty for the purpose of control in a dictatorship.

If you don’t like the government you are free to start a ‘let Covid rip’ party and stand against them.

You may think that the government has gone too far relative to this virus but, on every occasion when we have faced a national threat, our liberty has been curtailed.

And, on every occasion when the threat has ceased, our liberties have been returned.

Not really. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance or something like that.
It's just this, its just that, it saves lives, it's temporary. I'll just take your child to a quarantine centre, I'll just keep your Mum safe here, you can't see her, but at least she's alive, I'll just close your workplace for three months, you can't pay the mortgage but at least you're alive....

This article is long, but it resonates with me. Highly relevant to the individual vs collective good and what is a humanitarian response. The conclusions does give an excellent sumnary
academic.oup.com/jlb/advance-article/doi/10.1093/jlb/lsaa064/5912724

Perhaps they should test the entire population and kill everyone who tests positive. That would save lives by preventing the spread.Why has nobody come up with this marvellous idea before?! After all, people seem to think Covid is a guaranteed death sentence or at best a life of misery with long Covid.

@Spodge

Perhaps they should test the entire population and kill everyone who tests positive. That would save lives by preventing the spread.Why has nobody come up with this marvellous idea before?! After all, people seem to think Covid is a guaranteed death sentence or at best a life of misery with long Covid.

Bit harsh to kill then all Splodge. Perhaps we could just intern them all in a fixed area with dedicated medical provision and remove all healthy people from that area at the same time?

Actually we could just requisition Kent as a Covid isolation area, and the government could tie it in with their Brexit planning.

Only on MN could being asked to wear a mask to protect the vulnerable in your society be compared to the Holocaust. But the Godwin prize was snapped up pretty quickly there.
Arguably we could say the mask refusers' and Covid denier's attitude is more akin to what the Nazis proposed though. Get rid of the elderly and clinically vulnerable so we can get on with our lives.

You forgot they have also stopped casual sex. The government actually dictating who you can have sex with.

Daily, I am astounded at the level of authoritarianism people are blindly accepting. No questions, no scrutiny, just total acceptance. Mumsnet is the worst.

I haven’t really thought this until now, it was needed at the beginning and three months seemed sensible. But now with no end in sight, yes it’s not right to impose all this on the population.

For those against strong laws, what would you suggest instead?

For instance, would you allow someone to hook up with a different person (why not 2 or 3) for casual sex, effectively mixing many households?

I think that the government is handling this area quite well. If you want to meet up with a gf/bf, no one will stop you. No one is coming into your house to check what you are up to.

The police are not even retrospectively fining people (e.g Corbyn and Johnson senior).

The reality is egregious breaches are being punished (I hope) but, on the whole, people are left to just interpret the law with sensitivity.

The virus is no respecter of our freedoms. If you get it, you are definitely ‘jailed’ for a couple of weeks and you may well end up ‘muzzled’ with an oxygen mask in a high security ‘jail’.

It is about common sense and compromise. The problem is many people have absolutely none of either and want to party like it’s 1999.

'Fines for leaving my house when I'm not even ill seems just as ridiculous as the government fining me for not losing weight. '

Oh grow up. Fines if you need to isolate and don't or if you break the very basic and simple rules.

I'm so tired of hearing about snowflakes unable to cope with these restrictions. Yes it is an economic disaster, yes we're all sick of it and some with mh problems struggle more than others but it won't be forever. Quarantining students seemed drastic but if they hadn't done anything people would whine that 'they should have done something!!!'

What do you suggest, do nothing and just let it run wild and kill more people? Are those over 40 all dispensable just so you can go to the pub?

Absolutely agreed OP - shocking that this could happen in what used to be a democracy.

'shocking that this could happen in what used to be a democracy.'

It is shocking yes that there is a pandemic and hundreds of thousands have died globally. Not sure what being in a democracy has to do with it.

'Only on MN could being asked to wear a mask to protect the vulnerable in your society be compared to the Holocaust'

Yes it's disgusting. Talk of dictatorships and 'civil liberties' 🙄. Maybe some people just want vulnerable and older people wiped out?

@GetOffYourHighHorse the average age of people who die from covid is 82. I don't know where you got this idea that everyone over 40 is gonna drop dead if they get infected, but it is incorrect.

It's just two weeks.

It's just non-essential businesses.

It's just to keep from overwhelming the hospitals.

It's just until cases go down more.

It's just to keep others from being scared.

It's just for a few more weeks.

It's just communion or singing. You can still meet.

It's just until we get a vaccine.

It's just a few side effects.

It's just a bracelet.

It's just to let people know you're safe to be around.

It's just for the coronavirus vaccine.

It's just an app.

It's just to let others know who you've been in contact with.

It's just a few more months.

It’s just an email account.

It's just a few people.

It's just a credit card company.

You can use cash.

It's just a few places that don't take cash.

It’s just for medical information & paying for things.

It’s just so you can travel.

It’s just so you can get your driver’s license.

It’s just so you can vote.

It’s just a piece of paper.

It's just a piece of cloth.

'the average age of people who die from covid is 82. I don't know where you got this idea that everyone over 40 is gonna drop dead if they get infected, but it is incorrect.'

Oh well that's ok then! Who cares about the old people! Many with chronic health conditions end up in hospital with covid. Have you seen how admissions are increasing? Many end up in ICU. Now 'average ages of people who die' might be all you're interested in but these are people's loved ones, not just statistics. A month on a ventilator isn't much fun either for those who do survive.

The restrictions aren't that bad if it prevents those with medical problems and these apparently dispensable (fit) 82yr olds dying.

How sad that some see their 'right' to go to the pub after 10pm more important than playing their part in keeping rates of infection down.

Totally agree OP - this is dictatorship and we need to protect our freedoms before it's too late

'this is dictatorship and we need to protect our freedoms before it's too late'

Jesus. A 'dictatorship'. Are you serious or are you maybe mocking the op?

So, what do you suggest. Just carry on, open everything up! and let those in high risk groups - older people, obese people, black and Asian people and those with medical problems take the hit?

4. Force people to wear cloth over most of their face even if they don't want to in public.

OMG! Hahaha! Time for a rousing chorus:

I always like this quote. It's by CS Lewis but I think encapsulates a big part of the issue here:

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.

@Whywontthisjustend

I always like this quote. It's by CS Lewis but I think encapsulates a big part of the issue here:

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.

Bloody hell what a great quote!

@GetOffYourHighHorse never said it's okay, I am correcting your fear mongering "over 40 year olds will die from this virus" bs

Getoff,

People will not accept that in times of national emergency, we need to lose some of our freedoms. I don't see why they don't get it. It has happened before and it will happen again.

It is only if the emergency passes and our freedoms are not quickly returned that I will worry.

These days people would be upset that they could not turn on their houselights during a bombing raid. I would love to see a parody of MN, had it existed in WW2.....

'These days people would be upset that they could not turn on their houselights during a bombing raid. I would love to see a parody of MN, had it existed in WW2.....'

I know! It's just disappointing to read all the handwringing, self centred twaddle and constant referrals to civil liberties. Look how numbers are steadying slightly but oh no fuck that I can't go to a nightclub or have 10 people round for a dinner party. It's not fair waaaah.

'I am correcting your fear mongering "over 40 year olds will die from this virus" bs'

Oh I think if you ever read a paper or watch the news you'll find it is older people disproportionately affected. Guess what, there's a couple of 50yr olds in our nearest ICU with it! HTH.