What is reasonable for the government to impose on people in the fight against coronavirus.

[Treesofwood]

Most people seem to agree it is reasonable to

1. Prevent people from seeing people they love.
2. Prevent people from going to school.
3. Prevent people from going to the theatre.
4. Force people to wear cloth over most of their face even if they don't want to in public.
5. Stop people from hugging.
6. Stop people from working.
7. Stop children from playing with their friends in the park.
8. Force people who are well into self isolation for two weeks.
9. Ban people from having sex with people they don't live with.

10. Stop (just) adult children from going back to their family home from university.

I would have never believed someone who told me a year ago that these laws/"guidance" would be in place.

There are some things that it is not seen as reasonable for the government to do, despite the fact it would save lives.

But I would argue that most of the things above would have been laughed off as ridiculous in 2019. After all we don't live in a police state.

Where will it end? How much further down the line will we go. How many more things will we lose? Bodily autonomy? It will definitely head that way if some MPs have their way.

No no rookie a BBC link is very acceptable thanks, however from said link it says :

'The fire service said blocking a fire exit was illegal, dangerous, "reckless and puts lives at risk". A spokeswoman said IQ Student confirmed "they did not secure the exit" and it was working with the company "to ensure this does not happen again and to identify the individual(s) responsible for securing the exit closed'

A one off dangerous, illegal incident that is now rectified. Not part of The Evil Government's dictatorship plan as you implied.

'Taking offense to the word Hitler?'

Hmm, not so much to the word Hitler, more the person and you using this actual facist dictator in your erm, 'argument'.

Fascist*

I have never tried to attach a file before. But if it works, here is an infographic from PHE of the scale of the current problem.

Oh. It looked OK on the preview. One more try.

How would that graphic look with no lockdown of restriction?

We saw what happened in Italy and they started with a far better healthcare system then the UK has.

Graphics like these just encourage distrust and non compliance in the community.

@hamstersarse

Well 'quite frankly' I do have an understanding and if, say, they were saying 'parties are forbidden and no one must socialise ever for no good reason just because we are dictators' I'd get your point

That’s what they are saying.

COVID is 24th in the cause of deaths in the UK. Flu / pneumonia are killing 10x as many people per week compared to Covid.

Just exactly what is the good reason to cancel parties because of Covid?

I agree! But nobody wants to admit it or even think about it. Absolute madness. We should be looking at hospital admission and deaths and deaths.

This is a virus so bad that most people have to take a test to see if they have got it ...

This is a virus so bad that most people have to take a test to see if they have got it ...confused

That does sounds confused!

There are lots of pathogens for which there are medical tests, like HIV for example. Needing a test for it doesn't mean it is mild or benign.

I'm so tired of hearing about snowflakes unable to cope with these restrictions. Yes it is an economic disaster, yes we're all sick of it and some with mh problems struggle more than others but it won't be forever

I think you need to have a long hard look at yourself, you talk about resilience, sure that's a help to people considering self harm.

Yes I agree I’ve just read it back.

This is a virus that’s is largely so ineffective to the vast majority of the public. People have zero symptoms and only find out they have it when they have had to be tested or they symptoms they have are just like a bad cold.

I would now be a criminal if I sat in my 88 year old grandmothers garden to chat to her as she is lonely.

Hospital industry has been ruined.

My friend can’t visit her mother with dementia

Students are being held in closed of uni halls being guarded by security when they are largely unaffected by the virus.

I still can’t believe people that have gone in to hospital with other injuries or illness and proved to have Covid have been counted as Covid hospital admissions. It’s ridiculous

@jasjas1973

How would that graphic look with no lockdown of restriction?

We saw what happened in Italy and they started with a far better healthcare system then the UK has.

Graphics like these just encourage distrust and non compliance in the community.

What? Encouraging people to look closer at the true nature of the facts of what’s really going on..

It’s a mystery to me that despite the fact that governments and media regularly lie to the general population, are dishonest and prone to exaggeration, some people remain convinced that on this matter they are being told the gospel truth. Why would anyone assume they are being given full and complete facts? They even believe predictions which can’t even be proven such as “here’s how many cases we would have if we didn’t close businesses/wear masks/ban gatherings”. They have no way of knowing for sure. But people lap it up. It’s a test of control and some people have passed with flying colors, proving that a little fear can force people to sacrifice a lot of liberty.

If the governments seriously cared about the health of the people then there are other things they could “ban” long before fining a takeaway a grand for handing someone a cheeseburger at 10.04 pm that would “save“ far more lives. What evidence is there to suggest that standing at the counter of a takeaway at 10.04 pm is so much more life-threatening than standing there at 10.00 pm? Why groups of 6? Can the virus count and know that a group of 6 is to be avoided but a group of 7 is ok to infect? And the virus can tell the difference between a group of strangers drinking in a pub and a group of friends in someone’s living room?

I also find it odd that those who have fallen for the biggest attempt at control in our lifetimes assume that those of us who don’t buy it have never experienced the loss of a loved one. They trot out the old “but if it was your loved one” and “I assume you don’t know anyone who has been admitted to the ICU with COVID-19”. No, I don’t. But that doesn’t mean I’ve not lost a loved one. No death is without its pain and sadness. But life has to go in for the living, just as it does in every other situation. It’s sad for those who have died and those who have lost loved ones. No one is saying it isn’t. But expecting 99.94% of the population to sacrifice their livelihoods for 0.06% is not sustainable.

Not sure how a homeless woman having to pick up and use a discarded mask so she can access food and medicine is classed as protecting the vulnerable. Which is what happened to someone i spoke to yesterday.

Windy,

Your argument is analogous to saying very few people die in road traffic accidents these days so we should abandon the speed limit and drink driving laws.

Larrygrylls.

The government brought in masks very late in the day. The recent increase in restructions and laws in the place of guidance is more like the government deciding to ban non essential car travel, increase the age of driving to 30 and enforcing protective clothing to be worn inside the car at all times or face increasing fines. If you want to make comparisons.

Helenadove that's awful. Who are we protecting?

@BritWifeinUSA

It’s a mystery to me that despite the fact that governments and media regularly lie to the general population, are dishonest and prone to exaggeration, some people remain convinced that on this matter they are being told the gospel truth. Why would anyone assume they are being given full and complete facts? They even believe predictions which can’t even be proven such as “here’s how many cases we would have if we didn’t close businesses/wear masks/ban gatherings”. They have no way of knowing for sure. But people lap it up. It’s a test of control and some people have passed with flying colors, proving that a little fear can force people to sacrifice a lot of liberty.

If the governments seriously cared about the health of the people then there are other things they could “ban” long before fining a takeaway a grand for handing someone a cheeseburger at 10.04 pm that would “save“ far more lives. What evidence is there to suggest that standing at the counter of a takeaway at 10.04 pm is so much more life-threatening than standing there at 10.00 pm? Why groups of 6? Can the virus count and know that a group of 6 is to be avoided but a group of 7 is ok to infect? And the virus can tell the difference between a group of strangers drinking in a pub and a group of friends in someone’s living room?

I also find it odd that those who have fallen for the biggest attempt at control in our lifetimes assume that those of us who don’t buy it have never experienced the loss of a loved one. They trot out the old “but if it was your loved one” and “I assume you don’t know anyone who has been admitted to the ICU with COVID-19”. No, I don’t. But that doesn’t mean I’ve not lost a loved one. No death is without its pain and sadness. But life has to go in for the living, just as it does in every other situation. It’s sad for those who have died and those who have lost loved ones. No one is saying it isn’t. But expecting 99.94% of the population to sacrifice their livelihoods for 0.06% is not sustainable.

I love your post

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Celebrations are an important part of human life... weddings, graduations, birthdays, they bring us joy.'

Of course they are. It is a temporary arrangement not permanent. You need a bit of resilience and the ability to compromise. I'd rather my parents were here this time next year than sulk because we can't have a houseful on Sunday.

and what if your parents die of something else before next year. Perhaps just a week before the restrictions are relaxed. Will not having seen them this year be worth it?

Well not the vulnerable @Treesofwood Im sick of hearing that bollocks trotted out when its patently not true. It was all about getting people into the shops.

@Treesofwood
@Racoonworld (yes 3 weeks I understood, flatten the curve they said ... and then)
@JKRowlingIsMyQueen (and I love you for other reasons too)
@Whywontthisjustend (amazing quote)
@Windywendys
@hamstersarse (great rebuttal against the mansplaining)
God help the snowflakes if we ever get a virus that is actually as deadly as Spanish Flu
@PinkSparklyPussyCat
@redbushtea
@rookiemere
@Spodge love that graphic
I agree with the comments by all the above.

We all have different views, some to one side, some to the other. I feel sorry for many or the people who really fear the virus in the way that the government have encouraged. Some however are feeding on the fear and seem to enjoy furthering it - to what end I don't know.

I have read many reports from both sides and I know what I believe to be evidence. The truth will never be fully known (I mean I could say my anti elephant powder clearly works as I don't have elephants in my garden - totally batshit obviously).

I am scared of a government not answering to anyone - especially when it appears to be run by non elected or unaccountable people (Whitty and Valance) who have investments in the vaccine companies so have a strong interest in making sure we all accept vaccines on shortened testing but hey - so what)

If you're scared then fine - you are scared and nothing any of us can say will change that. Covid is a nasty virus, there's no denying - or at least I'm not denying.

I'm in a fairly vulnerable group - but not just to Covid and there are others that scare me more.

I believe what is happening is an overreaction but appreciate many don't.

Anyone - on either side - that insults anyone with a different opinion - to me loses the moral high ground. The truth will not be found on MN

All we can have is an opinion, informed or otherwise. Both sides can find plenty of evidence and experts back them up. Why belittle the other side? It's not as though it makes any difference.

Reality,

There is no need to belittle anyone. However, decisions have costs.

I suspect that you were a big fan of listening to the ‘experts’ on Brexit, where they were far less expert and economists could also be found on both sides of the argument (although the vast majority were anti).

Now, on the other hand, you don’t want to listen to the (real) experts on virology and epidemiology. Again, you will find a few to support letting Covid rip, but the vast majority globally back what our government is doing (which is pretty similar to what 95% of other countries are also doing).

You also seem to want to ignore what actually happened in April when the NHS was nearly (?) overwhelmed and many people were pressured into signing DNRs as there just wasn’t capacity to treat them. The doctors and nurses are not enthusiastic to repeat that.

If a meteorite was on course to hit the earth, the only people’s opinions that would really interest me would be physicists (and maybe some good military generals).

Your implication that Whitty and Valance are in it for the money is pretty low for one saying that you should not ‘belittle’. Personally I will take their advice over randomers on the Internet any day.

Then perhaps @larrygrylls you should realise that you too, are a randomer on the internet too and by your own logic we don't want to listen to you either.

I wonder what people think about the possibility of mandated vaccines?

Is that a step too far from government? Or is it a reasonable response to get the deadly virus under control?

'If you're scared then fine - you are scared and nothing any of us can say will change that. Covid is a nasty virus, there's no denying - or at least I'm not denying'

I'm not scared though, I'm just perfectly able to understand that to control the transmission of an infectious disease certain restrictions are needed.

@hamstersarse

I wonder what people think about the possibility of mandated vaccines?

Is that a step too far from government? Or is it a reasonable response to get the deadly virus under control?

I don't think that's a reasonable response no. And I say that as someone who has had all their vaccinations and given their child them all too.

I don't think anyone should be forcibly vaccinated especially when there might be little / no benefit to them personally.

Hamster,

Mandated vaccines are a step too far.

However, businesses and schools could impose vaccination (or exemption certificates) as a condition for entry.

To me, that is proportionate.