What is reasonable for the government to impose on people in the fight against coronavirus.

[Treesofwood]

Most people seem to agree it is reasonable to

1. Prevent people from seeing people they love.
2. Prevent people from going to school.
3. Prevent people from going to the theatre.
4. Force people to wear cloth over most of their face even if they don't want to in public.
5. Stop people from hugging.
6. Stop people from working.
7. Stop children from playing with their friends in the park.
8. Force people who are well into self isolation for two weeks.
9. Ban people from having sex with people they don't live with.

10. Stop (just) adult children from going back to their family home from university.

I would have never believed someone who told me a year ago that these laws/"guidance" would be in place.

There are some things that it is not seen as reasonable for the government to do, despite the fact it would save lives.

But I would argue that most of the things above would have been laughed off as ridiculous in 2019. After all we don't live in a police state.

Where will it end? How much further down the line will we go. How many more things will we lose? Bodily autonomy? It will definitely head that way if some MPs have their way.

@FreshFreesias

So what about Macron, Merkel and Conte?

Have they all randomly turned into quasi dictators, too?!

[quote larrygrylls]@FreshFreesias

So what about Macron, Merkel and Conte?

Have they all randomly turned into quasi dictators, too?![/quote]
I followed the Tour de france and now the Giro d italia, spectators, presentation ceremonies, hugs, kisses, emotion, podiums .... ...

London Marathon? may as well have been run around a deserted industrial estate, a soulless waste of time.

We will one day come out of CV but i fear for what will be left? and historically, what we are doing now has never happened.

Germany seems to be enshrining fewer restrictions on liberties than here in the UK. They even have criteria!

“In regions where the number of cases exceeds 35 per 100,000, a maximum of 25 people will be allowed to participate in events in private venues and no more than 50 in public.

Private events will be limited to 10 and 25 in public in areas where there are more than 50 cases per 100,000.

The government also encouraged residents to wear face masks and comply with hygiene rules, as well as regularly giving indoor places fresh air. “

We already have a requirement for hep b vaccination and blood tests for immunity for chickenpox for healthcare workers. There are restrictions on what procedures HIV and hep C positive people can do.

This is understandable - 1 healthcare worker could infect many people because of the nature of the job. Furthermore healthcare workers could do more desk/clinic based jobs which do not require so many invasive procedures. So we do already have some precedent.

@Namenic Can I ask what restrictions people living with HIV face from working in healthcare settings? They are not restricted from carrying out EPPs (exposure prone procedures) when on effective treatment (the vast majority) as long as they meet certain criteria such as being registered with OH.

I followed the Tour de france and now the Giro d italia, spectators, presentation ceremonies, hugs, kisses, emotion, podiums .... ...

Umm...can't comment on the Giro but the TdF was operated very differently from how it is run in normal years..

A lot of the social/networking events associated with the depart/arrival towns were curtailed, cancelled or access massively restricted.

Riders weren't supposed to engage with the public - a shame because they are normally very accessible - There was even a standard advert that ran on French TV everyday throughout the three weeks telling fans not to approach riders for autographs or selfies.

If you looked closely at the podium events you mentioned you would have seen they were performed very differently from the usual format in order to reduce physical contact: - jersey winning riders put their jersey on themselves behind the scenes before going to the podium, rather than it being put on them by one the publicity team whilst they stood on the podium..

..and, the horror, there were no kisses or handshakes from the podium girl and boy ( yes, it is now so) and also no handshakes with the local dignitaries who usually stand on the stage wings....

Ultimately I'm not sure how much difference that really made given the crowds on the roads in some places.

@hamstersarse it would make a lot more sense if the UK had a clear policy on level of restrictions based on cases per 100,000 like Germany.

It makes no sense why some areas have restrictions and others with similar numbers don't. There may be a very good reason for it, but without the rationale being shared it leads to distrust and possibly lack of adherence to the guidelines.

HIVpos - I think it might have changed since the advent of drugs which can make viral load very low. Previously I think they weren’t allowed to do EPPs. I expect OH would want to see evidence of viral load.

The cycling Covid protocols have been established by the international cycling federation and are as what @notimagain says.
Italy has no restrictions particularly about gatherings apart from masks in certain locations between certain hours. Hence- spectators. Because they can. The riders are essential "bubbled" with the people involved in the Giro for the next 3 weeks.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/five-yorkshire-welders-jailed-2-22788063

5 people to be jailed for going to Tesco wearing masks.

I really don't know how people cannot see this is absolutely insane.

Going to Tesco?

That was on the Idle of Man not in the UK

Isle

Oh, that’s ok then 🤪

This video is interesting from a group of lawyers put out on Oct 3rd.

Dr. Reiner Fuellmich (26yrs at the bar) discusses impending Worldwide Class Action Lawsuit by German Coronavirus Committee for flawed PCR, lockdown & fraud.

He successfully took Deutsche to court & VW over the emissions scandal

@Namenic

HIVpos - I think it might have changed since the advent of drugs which can make viral load very low. Previously I think they weren’t allowed to do EPPs. I expect OH would want to see evidence of viral load.

Namenic - guidelines in 2014 stated that EPPs could be performed. More info here: www.tht.org.uk/hiv-and-sexual-health/being-diagnosed-hiv/telling-people/employers

Coronavirus isn't going anywhere and people need to deal with it. And yes, we will probably all catch it eventually, just as we do other viruses.

Hamster,

It is scare mongering to feature an IOM story as if it were the U.K.

The IOM eliminated Covid and does not want it reintroduced, hence very strict (and enforced) laws about workers from mainland U.K.

@borntohula

Would you say that about Ebola or Smallpox.

Our central scenario is that we develop a vaccine and that it does go away (or becomes a rare disease, like all the others we vaccinate against).

If that fails (unlikely), we may have to ‘deal with it’ but that is definitely Plan B.

In the interim, we all need to just deal with the relatively minor infringements on our normal liberties for another few months.

@larrygrylls it depends on what your definition of relatively minor is.

Things like wfh are a minor inconvenience for me, but for students treated like criminals in halls of residence or elderly people unable to see their families because they are in care homes, that seems a bit more than a small inconvenience.

@larrygrylls

Hamster,

It is scare mongering to feature an IOM story as if it were the U.K.

The IOM eliminated Covid and does not want it reintroduced, hence very strict (and enforced) laws about workers from mainland U.K.

They are British Citizens, going to jail. For going to Tesco’s.

I know you want to defend the strategy to cv as much as possible, that is clear, but there should be limits to what you are prepared to defend.

@hamstersarse

Germany seems to be enshrining fewer restrictions on liberties than here in the UK. They even have criteria!

“In regions where the number of cases exceeds 35 per 100,000, a maximum of 25 people will be allowed to participate in events in private venues and no more than 50 in public.

Private events will be limited to 10 and 25 in public in areas where there are more than 50 cases per 100,000.

The government also encouraged residents to wear face masks and comply with hygiene rules, as well as regularly giving indoor places fresh air. “

Oh yes! everything's just lovely in Germany

www.nytimes.com/2020/08/31/opinion/germany-covid-lockdown-protests.html

'Bizarre anti lockdown protesters and 'a strange mix of conspiracy theorists'. Indeed.

They were jailed for breaking self-isolation rules, not going to Tesco's. Their destination is irrelevant.

'They are British Citizens, going to jail. For going to Tesco’s.'

Oh for goodness sake as Larry has said it is a small island, it's been eliminated and these idiots just marched about without quarantining. I believe even the mn heroine Jacinda (also on a small island) would take and equally dim view in fact look, jailed for hugging! Its not just those evil Tories enforcing rules y'know. It's a global thing!

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'They are British Citizens, going to jail. For going to Tesco’s.'

Oh for goodness sake as Larry has said it is a small island, it's been eliminated and these idiots just marched about without quarantining. I believe even the mn heroine Jacinda (also on a small island) would take and equally dim view in fact look, jailed for hugging! Its not just those evil Tories enforcing rules y'know. It's a global thing!

You cannot eliminate this virus - why do you think we can?

It does make clear why you are so very supportive of such draconian regimes though - you genuinely believe it can be eliminated.

This is an indication of a really messed up locus of control

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/05/paris-bars-to-close-for-two-weeks-as-city-moves-to-maximum-covid-alert

Civil liberties taken in Paris too! They're maybe all in cahoots with Vallance and Whitty.

'You cannot eliminate this virus - why do you think we can?'

Control it then. Just Google infectious disieases and how to control transmission, I tnink you need to read up on it tbh. Popping on a ferry from a high risk area to a low risk/no current cases area is not the way to do it.

I cannot believe 5 innocent people are in PRISON for going to Tesco, whilst wearing masks, and there are posters defending it. Calling them idiots no less.

Boris fucking Johnson couldn't remember his own rules, yet 5 men travelling to do their jobs and stopping off to buy some food are in prison and people are fine with it.

Popping on a ferry from a high risk area to a low risk/no current cases area is not the way to do it

They were going to work on the Manx electric railway. They weren't on a stag do.