What is reasonable for the government to impose on people in the fight against coronavirus.

[Treesofwood]

Most people seem to agree it is reasonable to

1. Prevent people from seeing people they love.
2. Prevent people from going to school.
3. Prevent people from going to the theatre.
4. Force people to wear cloth over most of their face even if they don't want to in public.
5. Stop people from hugging.
6. Stop people from working.
7. Stop children from playing with their friends in the park.
8. Force people who are well into self isolation for two weeks.
9. Ban people from having sex with people they don't live with.

10. Stop (just) adult children from going back to their family home from university.

I would have never believed someone who told me a year ago that these laws/"guidance" would be in place.

There are some things that it is not seen as reasonable for the government to do, despite the fact it would save lives.

But I would argue that most of the things above would have been laughed off as ridiculous in 2019. After all we don't live in a police state.

Where will it end? How much further down the line will we go. How many more things will we lose? Bodily autonomy? It will definitely head that way if some MPs have their way.

'said I want the choice and not to be forced by some government fuck wit and his do good thicko followers. Comprende??'

comprende .

Yep, it's insane. Over it.

There are huge mixed messages from the NHS. On one hand they say they're open. On the other hand, my GP surgery has locked the doors, you have to be triaged by phone, ring from outside for the surgery to be unlocked, attend in full PPE. They are giving off distinct "do not bother us" vibes.

Cancer referrals are down 20% at least. Give it 2 or 3 years and people will be dying of cancers which could have potentially been prevented if people had seen their GP in 2020.

'And I’m amazed people don’t think the NHS has been shut. It still is for many! Have people no idea about what has actually happened? This ranges from delayed “minor” surgery to cancer tests such as colonoscopies to B12 injections to mental health support. Wake the fuck up'

I've 'woken the fuck up'. If you'd presented at your GP with rectal bleeding you would have been referred. Routine screening was halted but is up and running as is mental health support. Our Trust is even paying for taxis to for some from an hours drive away to go to private hospitals where they have contracted out some of the backlog of routune ops. So maybe you need to 'wake the fuck up'.

Imagine if the nhs had just carried on as normal throughout and there'd obviously been further outbreaks these folk who say such thjngs as 'comprende' like someone off Only Fools and Horses would be wanging on that 'the gov shoulda done summat!!'.

If you'd presented at your GP with rectal bleeding you would have been referred

Maybe in some trusts. Not all.

And if your best argument is a snidey personal insult, maybe you need to try harder.

We already have a requirement for hep b vaccination and blood tests for immunity for chickenpox for healthcare workers. There are restrictions on what procedures HIV and hep C positive people can do.

This is understandable - 1 healthcare worker could infect many people because of the nature of the job. Furthermore healthcare workers could do more desk/clinic based jobs which do not require so many invasive procedures. So we do already have some precedent.

Education face to face is important but I do not think it is an essential in the same way as health, food, shelter. It is something we can mitigate by online education and we have more time in the future to improve should we choose to invest. Eg I think we should reduce tuition fees for current students and provide further education support for the recent A level and gcse years.

Currently I think immuno-suppressed children and adults are given very little choice - and they also have issues with finances and mental health too.

Th issues with finances, jobs and medical treatment are not only due to the restrictions. It is due to govt choice not to put in place measures that mitigate them. Unfortunately there is less you can do to mitigate effect on vulnerable people - as they are more likely to need carers or hospital appointments.

'these restrictions aren't working though, 9 weeks in and infection rates in Manchester & the north higher than ever.'

Well without restrictions it could well be much worse! Maybe you think it's all a conspiracy to destroy hospitality and upset people. What possible reason would they have to do that? Look at July and aug, things were pretty much normal but as rates go up, then so do restrictions, it's very simple

No its not that simple, no country in the west has the means to control a population.
Even draconian measures don't work, learn from other epidemics? ebola, contained by winning over the populations of the countries affected.
Governments that have dealt with CV the best have earned the trust of their populations.
We will never control CV unless the Conservatives are believed and trusted..... so look at these infection rate figures? all caused by a glitch!!! FFS who believes this shite? be honest for once, admit the system screwed up and infection rates are going up regardless, stop trying to pretend its all ok and a computer issue.

Conspiracy theories are usually wrong as Govt's cannot keep secrets.

So no, i always go for the incompetence theory lol!

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Vaccines are not fail safe but they are very safe. There is no treatment that is 100% safe.

Dr Andrew Wakefield is still a hero in certain quarters, despite the comprehensive debunking of his linkage of MMR and autism.

A vaccine with a huge uptake is our best (and only) real hope of getting back to where we were in the near future.

@copy,

'New vaccine, so noone is completely sure, but risk is around 0.8% of serious complications.'

You are seriously telling me that there is 1/125 chance of SERIOUS complications?! Where is this number from?

We will not release a vaccine unless it is deemed to be 'safe', which means a far far lower risk profile than you have just quoted.

Complying with rules and injecting yourself to benefit others but not yourself is very different. And I think more people than you think are sick and fucking tired of putting everyone else above themselves.

I'm with you. .

'Maybe in some trusts. Not all. And if your best argument is a snidey personal insult, maybe you need to try harder.'

In all Trusts if you had presented with new rectal bleeding that would also have necessitated referral in normal times then yes you would have been referred. Bleeding, lumps the usual 2 week wait referrals weren't ever paused.

I think its a bit rich you criticising 'snidey' comments when your 'thicko and 'comprende' were just that. Don't dish it if you can't take it.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Maybe in some trusts. Not all. And if your best argument is a snidey personal insult, maybe you need to try harder.'

In all Trusts if you had presented with new rectal bleeding that would also have necessitated referral in normal times then yes you would have been referred. Bleeding, lumps the usual 2 week wait referrals weren't ever paused.

I think its a bit rich you criticising 'snidey' comments when your 'thicko and 'comprende' were just that. Don't dish it if you can't take it.

Sorry but no. You don't know that. You saying it doesn't make it true.

And unless you're Johnson, Hancock or whitty, sweetheart, I wasn't talking about you.

A vaccine with a huge uptake is our best (and only) real hope of getting back to where we were in the near future

US CDC saying any vaccine that is 50% effective will get regulatory approval.
Drugs that bypass years of trials but expecting huge take up are going to be met with skepticism.

Of course a vaccine is the way out of this but it has to be safe and highly effective..... as always come back to trust.

'Sorry but no. You don't know that. You saying it doesn't make it true.'

Sorry but yes. New unexplained bleeding or lumps would have been managed as before. Non urgent cases wouldn’t have been. HTH.

sweetheart

New unexplained bleeding or lumps would have been managed as before. Non urgent cases wouldn’t have been

mmmmm someone i know had suspected throat cancer (large lump in throat that almost caused him to choke to death on some food) in january given an appt in March.... this was cancelled, he eventually got his appt in august, he lost a large amount of weight because he was scared to eat and no he wasn't over weight.

My cousins 6 monthly cancer screening was halted over the lockdown period.

Only reason NHS wasn't overwhelmed because it curtailed most if not all treatments, at least other countries tried to treat their (non CV) sick, even if it meant field hospitals in car parks.

@thecatsatonthewall

A vaccine with a huge uptake is our best (and only) real hope of getting back to where we were in the near future

US CDC saying any vaccine that is 50% effective will get regulatory approval.
Drugs that bypass years of trials but expecting huge take up are going to be met with skepticism.

Of course a vaccine is the way out of this but it has to be safe and highly effective..... as always come back to trust.

I have a sense that this vaccine, if/when it arrives, may just be a VINO (vaccine in name only). A placebo solution to release the country from the grip of Coronavirus Mania.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Sorry but no. You don't know that. You saying it doesn't make it true.'

Sorry but yes. New unexplained bleeding or lumps would have been managed as before. Non urgent cases wouldn’t have been. HTH.

sweetheart

And you can verify that? Have you asked every single trust if that's the case? No. You have not. You don't know whether what you're saying is true or not. You have no idea.

It's the contradictory nature of the rules that get me. I can't see my adult children or visit my friends but I can mix with 30+ members of staff at work and stand in front of 30 children every day.

Areas of the north of England were put into local lockdowns which meant they couldn't visit their families (as there was a high incidence of cases of their areas). The whole of Scotland has had to suffer these measures for the last few weeks even though many areas have had very few cases.

I'm just sick of the whole bloody thing and can't see any end in sight any time soon. I honestly can't see holidays abroad next summer either. Completely depressing.

Refractory. It would work too. As people would believe they only got it mildly because they got a vaccine.

@Treesofwood

Refractory. It would work too. As people would believe they only got it mildly because they got a vaccine.

Yes, it would. More importantly, it would allow Johnson to draw a line under his campaign of wreckage and declare the whole thing a success.

This will be over when he finds a politically tenable way of getting himself out of it, or when his premiership is under threat. I do believe that's the only way out.

Refractory,

You are very uk focused. This is global.

If there is some giant conspiracy, it is awfully well co-ordinated

Larry.
Here's some worldwide data for you. You might find it interesting.

twitter.com/Rapatauxx/status/1312417246808072192?s=19

Ah, the conspiracy theorist one. Original.

"It is only if the emergency passes and our freedoms are not quickly returned that I will worry."

• how will we know when the emergency has passed?

@agentcooper I feel the same. I've been on/off suicidal. No end in sight. I think some people think that I'm just being selfish. I'm not, it's just how I feel.