To all those all think let's just let everyone get it...

[Patchworkpatty]

I am increasingly frustrated by this mindset. It assumes that you will either get Covid (akin to a cough and a temperature) which will last a few days... Or die if you are 'vulnerable' (huge argument to what that means) and that it's better just to get the vulnerable to shield whilst the rest let it sweep across the population .

Can I please ask you to listen to 'Long Covid' on BBC Radio 4 at 11:30. Presented by the Scientist Adam Rutherford.

He was healthy 42 year old. Struck down on the 17th of March.
He has spent the last months investigating the after effects of this so called 'mild illness' on the younger population , looking at the affect on blood clotting, kidneys, chronic breathlessness and debilitating fatigue amongst other issues . ? A phenomenon known as 'Long Covid' .

... and then tell me if you feel quite so laid back about getting this ?

Ah. So the collapse of hospitality and the Arts don't matter. I'm not just talking about actors and musicians: I'm talking about front of house staff, lighting technicians, box office salespeople and all the other people who are employed in the arts sector...

In comparison to health services, no they don't matter one jot. Sorry

Interesting, Jrobhatch29. I used to work with the elderly and vulnerable before it was all closed down. So I many of my social contacts fall into that category. IME, it's not the elderly and the vulnerable who support lockdowns - they have a 'I'll live what life I have to the full and if it's cut a bit shorter, too bad' attitude. It's younger people who seem to want us all locked away until ...

Ironically, although I don't know of anyone who has died of Covid, nor do I know of anyone who knows anyone who's died of it, I now know of two people - one teenager and one middle-aged - who killed themselves because they couldn't cope with shutdown of their normal lives.

So to those who post along the lines of 'you'd feel differently if someone you loved died of Covid' I suggest that you might feel differently if someone you loved died as a result of the measures. Particularly, as it seems that Covid deaths seem to be considered of more account.

@Flaxmeadow

Ah. So the collapse of hospitality and the Arts don't matter. I'm not just talking about actors and musicians: I'm talking about front of house staff, lighting technicians, box office salespeople and all the other people who are employed in the arts sector...

In comparison to health services, no they don't matter one jot. Sorry

Now I've heard it all. Casually discarding huge swathes of the population just because they aren't in some way related to the NHS.

The heath service won't be able to cope with the mental health issues arising from this endless lockdown/quasi-lockdown, never mind the backlog of physical health issues which are going untreated. But so long as people die of late-diagnosis cancer, that's fine. They can die, untreated and undiagnosed, of whatever they like, so long as it's not Covid.

Flaxmeadow, your post is one of the worst and cruellest things I have read in almost 20 years on MN. And I have read some pretty horrendous things in that time.

@Flaxmeadow

Ah. So the collapse of hospitality and the Arts don't matter. I'm not just talking about actors and musicians: I'm talking about front of house staff, lighting technicians, box office salespeople and all the other people who are employed in the arts sector...

In comparison to health services, no they don't matter one jot. Sorry

Why?

@Flaxmeadow

I really want to know what the lockdown advocates want?

To prevent the collapse of the health service, and also other emergency services

Sorry, Flax, I evidently failed to misunderstand your post. When you mention "other emergency services", you're presumably suggesting that the fire brigade will be saved from extinction if we have a nice long lockdown.

Everything is now starting to make sense.

your post is one of the worst and cruellest things I have read in almost 20 years on MN. And I have read some pretty horrendous things in that time

What because I would prioritise a hospital over some poncy art gallery?
Get a grip of yourself

Flax, where did I mention "poncy art galleries"?

I mentioned lighting technicians, front of house staff (including ice-cream sellers), and people who work in box offices. I could also have mentioned people who clean theatres and concert halls; the printers who print the programmes; the set and costume designers; the librettists (and those are just the people I can think of !) These are all hard-working people with bills to pay and, in a huge number of cases, families to look after.

Where did "poncy art galleries" come into this?

I am sure you are nice and mild person IRL. But your posts are very unpleasant, and smack of someone with an entire portion of chips on their shoulder.

@Flaxmeadow

your post is one of the worst and cruellest things I have read in almost 20 years on MN. And I have read some pretty horrendous things in that time

What because I would prioritise a hospital over some poncy art gallery?
Get a grip of yourself

pretty much venue music venue, large and small, in the country is in imminent danger of going under. Once they close, most of them will never re-open.

Many, many thousands of people will be, directly, out of work, £billions of economic activity will disappear and we will be living in a cultural wasteland.

Australia and New Zealand realised the way to save their entertainment and arts industries was to contain Covid.

Unlike us they used their island advantage.
Their art galleries are open. As are their hospitals.

Pretending the nasty virus doesn't exist only serves to drag everything out. Short-termism at it's worst. Dealing with Covid saves industries, jobs, and the long-term economy. Short-term pain, long-term gain.

well the UK govt has declared that their policy is to suppress the virus and hope for a vaccine to come along

at best that will take at least six months before it's ready to start being rolled out

it will probably be nearer a year

quite possibly it will be longer than that

and not impossible there will be never be a vaccine

soon, many industries will be beyond saving because the cultural, social and economic network that supports them will have disappeared

the govt strategy is only pain and no gain, neither short term nor long term

I am sure you are nice and mild person IRL. But your posts are very unpleasant, and smack of someone with an entire portion of chips on their shoulder

But not the ham you're playing up to the gallery?

Here is global crisis and a weighing scale, on one side we have "the arts" on the other side of the scales we have the NHS

I choose the NHS

@Flaxmeadow

I am sure you are nice and mild person IRL. But your posts are very unpleasant, and smack of someone with an entire portion of chips on their shoulder

But not the ham you're playing up to the gallery?

Here is global crisis and a weighing scale, on one side we have "the arts" on the other side of the scales we have the NHS

I choose the NHS

I choose honesty and care in society

Im nhs and I would be gutted if the arts went under as they make life worth living .

So if by next spring huge swathes of the arts, hospitality, leisure and tourism industry are completely and irretrievably fucked but the NHS has been "saved" in an undefinable way that will be fine will it ?

We'll see how the NHS fares with increasing numbers of people suffering the physical and mental health issues that frequently go alongside economic deprivation shall we ? Alongside those who've had treatment suspended or delayed because it wasn't special covid, or people who missed the opportunity to have things like breast cancer caught early because their screening was cancelled. But we'll have saved the NHS from covid, so that's OK isn't it.

There are people adopting harder stances here largely dependent on their own personal situations.

I don’t think the two ends of the spectrum are too important though. I’m more concerned with what is actually happening, which at the moment is a slower release of the virus. That will continue to be the case as the UK population’s compliance to restrictive measures is as already stated far from total so trace & test has little chance of working here as it potentially could no matter how good it becomes.

-Only 18% of people self-isolate after developing symptoms

-Only 11% quarantine after being told by NHS Test and Trace that they've been in contact with a confirmed case

The only changes I can see is if there isn’t a vaccine or treatment & more of the population are affected adversely by lockdown measures as financial support clearly cannot be indefinite, so then the likelihood is there will be even less compliance. The government then has to make choices on more lockdowns or not, at the possible risk of even worsening levels of compliance in those who are not already inclined to comply due to a perceived lesser risk of serious problems with the disease etc

@Flaxmeadow

Ah. So the collapse of hospitality and the Arts don't matter. I'm not just talking about actors and musicians: I'm talking about front of house staff, lighting technicians, box office salespeople and all the other people who are employed in the arts sector...

In comparison to health services, no they don't matter one jot. Sorry

Jeez.

@Flaxmeadow

I am sure you are nice and mild person IRL. But your posts are very unpleasant, and smack of someone with an entire portion of chips on their shoulder

But not the ham you're playing up to the gallery?

Here is global crisis and a weighing scale, on one side we have "the arts" on the other side of the scales we have the NHS

I choose the NHS

FFS, why do you have to CHOOSE?

You're being manipulated. Compassion and empathy only going to those you deem most "worthy".

Can you not see how dangerous this is?

And I am still yet to see more than a tiny tiny number of posters on MN who are "pretending the virus doesn't exist".

@DamitJanet there is no way round that’s the issue. It’s a situation where you will loose some where. Regardless of everyone’s individual view a decision has to be made some where it’s the harsh reality.

@HesterShaw1 the manipulation that covid is the only thing that matters is terrifying and daring to suggest otherwise is, go some, tantamount to supporting leaving old people on a hillside to die.

@Flaxmeadow

Ah. So the collapse of hospitality and the Arts don't matter. I'm not just talking about actors and musicians: I'm talking about front of house staff, lighting technicians, box office salespeople and all the other people who are employed in the arts sector...

In comparison to health services, no they don't matter one jot. Sorry

do you not understand that a bad economic situation leads to bad health outcomes? do you not understand just how we pay for the NHS? Because that's a great big chunk of taxes gone isn't if its the Arts cease to exist. Its also a lot more money on benefits too isn't it - and where do you think that money is going to come from? The government cant just pull it out their arse you know.

It is amazing to me how people do not understand how closely the economy and health are linked. "the arts" brings in a lot of cash believe it or not.

You are a repulsive human being, flaxmeadow. I won’t say what I actually want to say because it would get be deleted or banned.

@Flaxmeadow

Ah. So the collapse of hospitality and the Arts don't matter. I'm not just talking about actors and musicians: I'm talking about front of house staff, lighting technicians, box office salespeople and all the other people who are employed in the arts sector...

In comparison to health services, no they don't matter one jot. Sorry

How dare you say that, who the hell do you think you are. Fuck you.

Flaxmeadow, I'm struggling so much with theatres being closed and no shows on the horizon (I'm an actor) that I'm seriously worried about my mental health. Comments like yours really don't help at the moment.

Ignore her, kittensarecute - she doesn’t have a clue what she’s talking about. The uncertainty must be incredibly hard for you. It is criminal that the entire arts industry (and consequently hundreds of thousands of jobs) has just been thrown under the bus.