To all those all think let's just let everyone get it...

[Patchworkpatty]

I am increasingly frustrated by this mindset. It assumes that you will either get Covid (akin to a cough and a temperature) which will last a few days... Or die if you are 'vulnerable' (huge argument to what that means) and that it's better just to get the vulnerable to shield whilst the rest let it sweep across the population .

Can I please ask you to listen to 'Long Covid' on BBC Radio 4 at 11:30. Presented by the Scientist Adam Rutherford.

He was healthy 42 year old. Struck down on the 17th of March.
He has spent the last months investigating the after effects of this so called 'mild illness' on the younger population , looking at the affect on blood clotting, kidneys, chronic breathlessness and debilitating fatigue amongst other issues . ? A phenomenon known as 'Long Covid' .

... and then tell me if you feel quite so laid back about getting this ?

AlecTrevelyan006

It is madness that we are ruining the future of millions of younger people and forcing them to make sacrifices for something that does affect them

And you don't think the deaths of those people, there lost years, and the grief of those who lost them is not a sacrifice? I'm reading fuck the oldies in your post.

And while I' m here:

1. What is the sacrifice being made by younger people?
2. What younger people are you referring to? Age groups?

@echt

AlecTrevelyan006

It is madness that we are ruining the future of millions of younger people and forcing them to make sacrifices for something that does affect them

And you don't think the deaths of those people, there lost years, and the grief of those who lost them is not a sacrifice? I'm reading fuck the oldies in your post.

And while I' m here:

1. What is the sacrifice being made by younger people?
2. What younger people are you referring to? Age groups?

I dread to think how much grief and suffering is yet to come. For young and old. On both sides of a hospital bed and even a cemetery. This is not a trial. It's real life if we're lucky. So to speak. 🥺

I think more people are now worrying about the long term indirect consequences of covid rather than the actual virus now. Long term financial worries, people are losing jobs, having to take unpaid leave to look after isolating DC, losing wages having to isolate themselves, this could end up with people losing their homes and children not eating properly.
Long term education worries, teenagers especially are suffering due the amount of time missed in schools which will have a knock on effect on their Long term future prospects if they cant get good grades.
Peoples mental health is on its knees being cut off socially from other households.
All these things have a long term consequences. I dont think people are necessarily saying let it run rampant but when weighing up what the more likely long term damage will be for to them covid is not the top one!

My point is that figures are being put on the apparently expendable elders while the the projected sacrifices of the younger, i.e. future is whole lot of handwringing and projection and no facts.

@PinotLovesMomma

I think more people are now worrying about the long term indirect consequences of covid rather than the actual virus now. Long term financial worries, people are losing jobs, having to take unpaid leave to look after isolating DC, losing wages having to isolate themselves, this could end up with people losing their homes and children not eating properly. Long term education worries, teenagers especially are suffering due the amount of time missed in schools which will have a knock on effect on their Long term future prospects if they cant get good grades. Peoples mental health is on its knees being cut off socially from other households. All these things have a long term consequences. I dont think people are necessarily saying let it run rampant but when weighing up what the more likely long term damage will be for to them covid is not the top one!

Yes exactly this. I’m not too worried about the virus, even though I’m vulnerable the risk is incredibly low (I’m not in the shielding group and neither are any of my family or friends). I’m More worried about the economy, family and friends jobs, children’s social development, being isolated over winter if they ban household mixing. I don’t care if I catch the virus!

Some young people are sacrificing things right now

I do not see “elders” as “expendable”, I would like my extremely vulnerable father to live longer, but i as a younger person and the teenagers and 20yo I and my husband work with have sacrificed a lot this year. I don’t expect gratitude from older or vulnerable people who are alive or anything, that would be weird. What I would like is some acknowledgement from the government that by complying with lockdown we bought them more time to get their shit together, and they have failed to make good use of it. Instead we keep being told that we aren’t being good enough, we are too naughty and must be punished further

What have young people been asked to sacrifice? Hmm....Their schooling, education, proms, parties, holidays, all the usual rites of passage of a teen/young adult. It's bizarre. They are being blamed for "killing old people" and being called "selfish"...for wanting to just live normally. No-one can be directly blamed for someone's death because they may or may not have spread an illness around. I'm sure we've all gone into the office with a cold, which spread to someone that spread it to someone elderly who then died. That doesn't make you a murderer.

If a partner said to you, you can't go out of your student accommodation and if you do you're a murderer, they would be called a controlling psycho. But it's fine for the government to throw blame on young people for just trying to live. Young people didn't agree to these measures, in fact no-one voted for them, even though we're apparently a democratic country.

I don't want to generalise across a whole age group but I'm finding the elderly don't want to stay home or be protected. I have 3 grandparents still alive in their 80s. They're all in poor health, one was told she had 2 years left 3 years ago, and are offended that I won't take my kids round to see them... I'm starting to think why am I stopping my children having a relationship with them when they don't have much time left anyway. I'm on maternity and spend alot of time walking with my pram since there's nothing else to do. We are in local lockdown and not meant to be mixing households yet I walk past the cafe on the corner of my Street everyday and it is rammed shoulder to shoulder with pensioners! Yesterday they were doing some kind of book club, loads of them. I mean, good on them! But from what I see the elderly aren't following the rules either!

@Jrobhatch29

I don't want to generalise across a whole age group but I'm finding the elderly don't want to stay home or be protected. I have 3 grandparents still alive in their 80s. They're all in poor health, one was told she had 2 years left 3 years ago, and are offended that I won't take my kids round to see them... I'm starting to think why am I stopping my children having a relationship with them when they don't have much time left anyway. I'm on maternity and spend alot of time walking with my pram since there's nothing else to do. We are in local lockdown and not meant to be mixing households yet I walk past the cafe on the corner of my Street everyday and it is rammed shoulder to shoulder with pensioners! Yesterday they were doing some kind of book club, loads of them. I mean, good on them! But from what I see the elderly aren't following the rules either!

My 87 year old grandmother is out and about socialising far more than our family of 5 with three young children are. She says what’s the point in spending the last years of her life sat at home on her own. Her husband died in February so she was already finding loneliness difficult pre lockdown.

Yeah my grandparents are the same. They're not bothered at all by covid and think the rest of the family are daft for trying to protect them.

@Jrobhatch29 interesting point that you have made about your grandparents... I think it’s fair to let everyone make their own informed decision at this point. I can see from grandparents point of view that not seeing your family is probably worse than catching Covid (based on a mild case).

[quote Blulorry]@Jrobhatch29 interesting point that you have made about your grandparents... I think it’s fair to let everyone make their own informed decision at this point. I can see from grandparents point of view that not seeing your family is probably worse than catching Covid (based on a mild case).[/quote]
Yeah, tbh one goes for dialysis every other day and there has been covid patients on the unit with her loads of times. I'm more likely to catch it from her than the other way around 😂 but yes in my experience the elderly in my family are way more chilled about covid than the younger ones

This makes me so angry though. I’d much rather the government let us all get on with our lives but obviously they won’t do that. But why am I sitting home having my life completely changed, not doing half the things I want to in order to protect the elderly and vulnerable when they can’t even be bothered to stay at home and protect themselves. Unless the people we are trying to protect start acting responsibly I’m not going to carry on sticking to the rules much longer.

@Racoonworld

This makes me so angry though. I’d much rather the government let us all get on with our lives but obviously they won’t do that. But why am I sitting home having my life completely changed, not doing half the things I want to in order to protect the elderly and vulnerable when they can’t even be bothered to stay at home and protect themselves. Unless the people we are trying to protect start acting responsibly I’m not going to carry on sticking to the rules much longer.

You say that as though people like my grandmother are expecting you to sit at home to protect her. She isn’t. She doesn’t want protecting. She just wants to see her family in what is probably the last months/years of her life, when she is already grieving the loss of her husband.

@Racoonworld

This makes me so angry though. I’d much rather the government let us all get on with our lives but obviously they won’t do that. But why am I sitting home having my life completely changed, not doing half the things I want to in order to protect the elderly and vulnerable when they can’t even be bothered to stay at home and protect themselves. Unless the people we are trying to protect start acting responsibly I’m not going to carry on sticking to the rules much longer.

I have to admit, it makes me sad that where I am it is actually illegal to go to my mams, have her at mine or even meet her anywhere, but the elderly are mixing households in the cafe everyday. My nanna does a tour of the North East most days to her favourite fish mongers, the butchers, the bakers etc etc on top of her supermarket shop yet here's me still doing click and Collect to reduce my contacts 🙈

whole lot of handwringing and projection and no facts.

You honestly think people suffering from the knock-on effects of the covid measures are just hand-wringing and projection? Have you seen the job loss figures? Do you have any idea how many more are to come when furlough rounds out?

It’s a good point OP. I have a chronic lung condition as a result of a childhood disease (which can be vaccinated against). Mine is relatively mild but still I wouldn’t wish the lung issues and fatigue on anyone. I know they hope / believe those with long Covid will get better, but how does anyone know?

I also 100% see the point of view of grandparents who want to enjoy their years left and see their family.

I think a lot of people are understandably hoping there's an unexplored happy middle ground available, where we could let the virus go wild a bit more, so we don't have as many restrictions, but society and the health service and education and all that would all still cope.

I completely understand people wanting that to be the case because the economic situation and so on is so terrifyingly awful. That doesn't mean we actually have that space to move into though. If we did, we'd be there - or rather maybe that's where we are now, it's just really crap.

If hospitals start really filling up with cases again, nothing normal will get to carry on the way we'd like it to. That we would have more normal life if we let more people get covid rather than stopping infections is a pipe dream.

But why am I sitting home having my life completely changed, not doing half the things I want to in order to protect the elderly and vulnerable when they can’t even be bothered to stay at home and protect themselves. Unless the people we are trying to protect start acting responsibly I’m not going to carry on sticking to the rules much longer.

More fool you. Did you/Boris/anyone ask the elderly if they even want protecting? The ones I know want to get on with their lives just like me, and would rather take the risk than shutting themselves away for potentially years.

While my coupled-up friends didn't see each other for 8 weeks, my parents' elderly neighbour met a boyfriend during lockdown who's now moved in!

@BeijingBikini

What have young people been asked to sacrifice? Hmm....Their schooling, education, proms, parties, holidays, all the usual rites of passage of a teen/young adult. It's bizarre. They are being blamed for "killing old people" and being called "selfish"...for wanting to just live normally. No-one can be directly blamed for someone's death because they may or may not have spread an illness around. I'm sure we've all gone into the office with a cold, which spread to someone that spread it to someone elderly who then died. That doesn't make you a murderer.

If a partner said to you, you can't go out of your student accommodation and if you do you're a murderer, they would be called a controlling psycho. But it's fine for the government to throw blame on young people for just trying to live. Young people didn't agree to these measures, in fact no-one voted for them, even though we're apparently a democratic country.

Great post 👍

I really want to know what the lockdown advocates want?

To prevent the collapse of the health service, and also other emergency services

@Lurkingforawhile

It’s a good point OP. I have a chronic lung condition as a result of a childhood disease (which can be vaccinated against). Mine is relatively mild but still I wouldn’t wish the lung issues and fatigue on anyone. I know they hope / believe those with long Covid will get better, but how does anyone know?

I've said it before on here, but will say it again: Long Covid is not as sodding Special as people are making out. I've had Long Flu and Long Swine Flu, if you want to give them oh-so-special names though nobody does, because only sodding Covid matters

They were not much fun, but I don't recall anyone having to lose their job because of my misfortune (including me).

@Flaxmeadow

I really want to know what the lockdown advocates want?

To prevent the collapse of the health service, and also other emergency services

Ah. So the collapse of hospitality and the Arts don't matter. I'm not just talking about actors and musicians: I'm talking about front of house staff, lighting technicians, box office salespeople and all the other people who are employed in the arts sector, and who are now looking into the abyss. Perhaps people will start to realise that it matters once Furlough properly ends with mass unemployment, which means nobody will be able to afford to employ painters, decorators, plumbers, dentists, electricians, vets etc.

But, hey, so long as the health service can deal with Covid while cancelling all other appointments, which are leaving people like me crying in pain every single day , everything is fine and dandy.