To all those all think let's just let everyone get it...

[Patchworkpatty]

I am increasingly frustrated by this mindset. It assumes that you will either get Covid (akin to a cough and a temperature) which will last a few days... Or die if you are 'vulnerable' (huge argument to what that means) and that it's better just to get the vulnerable to shield whilst the rest let it sweep across the population .

Can I please ask you to listen to 'Long Covid' on BBC Radio 4 at 11:30. Presented by the Scientist Adam Rutherford.

He was healthy 42 year old. Struck down on the 17th of March.
He has spent the last months investigating the after effects of this so called 'mild illness' on the younger population , looking at the affect on blood clotting, kidneys, chronic breathlessness and debilitating fatigue amongst other issues . ? A phenomenon known as 'Long Covid' .

... and then tell me if you feel quite so laid back about getting this ?

I’m not laid back about getting it. But I’m also not laid back about more and more people losing their jobs, demand for food banks increasing, the queue of people overdue cancer treatment getting longer and longer, people’s mental health suffering more and more... the list goes on. We have lots of problems in our society and Covid is one of many. In terms of stopping its spread it’s really up to the government to be far more competent with testing and with stopping local outbreaks by isolating positive cases - at the moment this is a shambles. Effective testing is a far better route to go down than shutting down the economy further. Too many people are already suffering from that.

I don’t feel at all laid back about getting covid. It’s got a lot closer to me from yesterday and we’re now watching and waiting basically. I do think we have to learn to live alongside it as we can’t lock everything down and wait.

Phenomenon get real, post viral syndrome has been around forever. 10% of people with Glandular fever get it.
My mam got myocarditis after flu 3 years ago.

Eating out or going for a drink is also not trivial. Many people’s livelihoods depend on these businesses. What’s your enjoyable evening is their means of paying their rent and bills. I don’t love people talking about eating out etc as though it’s this indulgent thing that’s causing other people’s sickness :deaths. If you socially distance and sanitise your hands And anything else you can do, you’re minimising the risk as much as you can. Many of these establishments took years of hard work to build up and they’re keeping many staff in employment. They’re important.

'Long covid' is spouted by attention seeking idiots in the main Is that right? That sounds a bit like when ME was 'yuppie flu'. I seem to remember 'attention-seeking' rhetoric around that too.

and by a particular kind of scientist who genuinely believes the public are too thick to understand science and medicine. Who are they?

I'm not laid back.
But I'm absolutely terrified of what my children's education and future will be as they enter their GCSE years.

But it feels like we are locking up the young and well to protect the vulnerable.

I think the people who want to carry on as normal, don't believe in their heart of hearts that it will be them who die or get long Covid. It will be someone else's husband or child. So they are prepared to risk those others for the sake of the economy. But if they knew for certain that it would be their most loved person, I think they might take a different view.
That said, I do think we need to be doing some things differently - reopening hospitals properly and investing in keeping Covid patients completely separate from say cancer patients because it's true that Covid isn't the only thing killing people. We do need to find a way to live with it that isn't total lockdown but still protects us as much as possible. I believe WFH is the right thing to do. I think keeping restaurants open but maybe not pubs would be worth looking into. We should keep on with masks and sanitiser and maybe closing schools temporarily in areas with very high transmission rates. But I definitely don't think it benefits us to just accept it and carry on.
If the govt are willing to shut everything that makes money, this situation must be even worse than they are admitting to - no govt (esp Tory) willingly takes this sort of hit. We know that immunity doesn't last, that people can get this twice so letting it run its course would not be good.

Dr Rutherford never actually had a positive COVID test did he? He also has Pneumonia at the same time. Don’t think he is someone to be referencing on this matter, appears to be a bit OTT.

I had horrific side effects for 18 months after the Flu one year. It was absolutely debilitating and far worse than the actual acute period of the flu. It's going to take a significant toll on the economy if a proportion of the population end up with a similar thing from Long Covid.

So you’ve decided that Long Covid is definitely a thing, then, because you have a vested interest in telling everyone how much you suffered after you had flu?

That’s all your post is about, so far as I can see: “I was so terribly ill!”. It adds nothing to the debate.

How do you know that post-viral effects will take a ‘significant toll on the economy’? You do know that 0.000001% is ‘a proportion’, right? You talk as if you expect 50% of working age adults to experience the same effects as the bloke on Radio 4.

Almost noone thinks "let everyone get it".

Some of us have an understanding of the morbidity associated with living in a bankrupt country. No NHS there, and likely little free education either. No free healthcare was a reality on around 100 years ago in many countries. Also, no money = failed state.

Plus, many of us are very concerned with the level of far reaching powers, the restriction on liberties, with so little scrutiny and parliamentary debate.

I find that prospect much more frightening than what COVID has turned out to be - a serious disease, but not serious enough to destroy the economy and the western democratic system as we know it.

I’ve had ‘long Covid’. 16 weeks ish of awful post viral effects. I’m 95% back to normal now.
It was very similar to the post viral effects I saw my mum suffer from a bout of flu when I was a child.
Post viral complications have always existed. Another friend of mine developed ME after the flu. I wonder if people who are so vocal about ‘long Covid’ knew that post viral complications were already a thing?

Dr Rutherford never actually had a positive COVID test did he?
Do you mean he's making it up?

Not laid back about getting it-mostly because I work with vulnerable people and don’t want to pass it onto them.

But agree that many viruses have long term effects. My dd had bad flu last year and has never really regained her appetite.

2 of the symptoms of ‘long’ Covid (not that long as it’s only been around 6 months) are fatigue and depression. Surely these are just as attributable to lockdown and the general crapness of the situation?

“ But if they knew for certain that it would be their most loved person, I think they might take a different view.”

I have known for certain for many years that one of my most loved people can end up in ICU due to complications for what most of us is a mild cold. I have never ever expected anyone to take the blame for passing on the cold virus at the times that this has happened - apart from anything else it’s hard to know exactly how and when transmission occurred, but also it is completely unfair to lay blame on individuals for viruses behaving as viruses. I’m not a “let everyone just get it” advocate, but I do want to know what those who say things like “if you had a vulnerable loved one you would want everyone to restrict themselves as much as possible” we’re doing before Covid. How were YOU protecting MY loved one then? How did you restrict yourself for them? Because people were still vulnerable then and will be even if the threat of Covid subsides. And I don’t actually expect anyone to feel responsible for stopping transmission of a virus, beyond basic hygiene measures, because it’s completely bonkers to think you can do that and live that way for any length of time.

This has got to stop. There are many risks and dangers in life other than Covid. This obsession with just one is detrimental to everybody including the vulnerable. Cancer diagnoses and urgent cancer appointments are backlogged. It’s getting ridiculous now, it’s prioritising one risk (Covid) over others like cancer and general preventative care (eg only emergency dentist appointments available despite oral cancers often being spotted at an earlier stage through checkups). The way society has reacted to and prioritised this as a whole has shocked and scared me. It’s a risk to be aware of and manage amongst others. Ffs

I remember reading lots of threads on here telling people not to call in sick when they have a cold etc. No one cared about passing stuff on to Bob and sue before but now it's protect them at all costs. I have worked too long and too hard to lose my job for something I have a massive chance of getting over.

For some it's not about being relaxed about catching it. It's the reality of no ornament vaccine and having to survive until that point ( which personally as a scientist I dont have 100% is going to fix this).

With no vaccine not everyone can hide at home indefinitely. Take just my household. If we all stayed at home then my husbands school will suffer. If everyone he works with stays home school will close. If the school closes the parents who are Drs and nurses cant work unless they send their kids somewhere else just still mixing, but with others rather than school. If the Drs and nurses cant work then people die. Not just of covid but normal things that normally kill people untimely.

Then extrapolate that out again for bankets, food supply chain, utilities workers. So, how can we all pause life and survive?

Death is a fact of life. Like cancer is a very tragic and cruel fact of life. This, unfortunately, right now is another facet in immortality like cancer, like heart disease. Until ( if) there is vaccine it will kill directly or indirectly. How do we stop nature and germs? You cant just ask Boris to retract Covid. Its here. We have to face up to reality now or maybe next year or years down the line. It's a fact of life now.

Rage against this, nature, death 24/7 but you can not rewrite the laws of nature. It's a virus, not a socail behaviour

'Long covid' is spouted by attention seeking idiots in the main

Would you like to go and repeat saying that on the Long Covid thread here? I'm sure people there will be only too happy to see you there and show you just how wrong you are.

I think if we end up with more understanding of longer term post viral conditions, and less of a culture of presenteeism where forcing yourself into the workplace when you should be resting at home (or could work from home if applicable) is not expected then that might be something to look forward to

I'm not laid back and don't exactly think everyone should just get on with it.

But to be honest, I had a real nasty virus when I was about 25. Possibly flu. I wasn't right for 6 months. Breathless, ongoing cough, tired. No one gave a shit then.

Do you ever think about the long term effects of mass job losses, poor mental health, loss of education, a bankrupt economy?

What long term effects do you think that will have on people's health?

I often here people on here complain about going to work because they are obese and therefore high risk. Did they not worry about the risks that come with being obese before? Such as diabetes, stroke, heart disease, fatty liver disease, high blood pressure.

Why is Covid all that matters?

I remember reading lots of threads on here telling people not to call in sick when they have a cold etc. No one cared about passing stuff on to Bob and sue before but now it's protect them at all costs. I have worked too long and too hard to lose my job for something I have a massive chance of getting over.

I fucking agree. Before Covid no one gave not one shit about bringing bugs and viruses into schools and workplaces. Bugs which could have harmed vulnerable people. Before Covid if your child missed a day at school it was hugely detrimental to their education and you'd have a threatening letter before long. Now it's cries of close the schools.

There's still no real support for people having to isolate.

I think it's important to realise that we don't yet know the percentage of people suffering with "long covid".
If you look at SARS only 78% of people were fit enough to return to work after one year and 40% still had chronic fatigue after 3.5 years.
Yes, all viruses can cause post viral syndromes. However, everyone posting (including me) hasn't been able to cite what percentage of people with flu have long term effects. The % of people effected with covid-19 also isn't known. However, I suspect that it is likely to be less than those with SARS and more than those with influenza. It is important to remember that every virus has a different fatality rate and a different rate of causing long-term complications. That is why some are included in childhood vaccination programmes and some are not.
Just because all viruses can cause long term effects doesn't mean all viruses are equal. I suspect this is why governments around the world are trying to contain the outbreak, despite the economic consequences. They will be weighing up the economic consequences of all possible outcomes and will be far more informed to make these choices than the general public.
That is the problem with popularist governments. They lie to gain power and then no-one believes them when they have to deal with situations like this.

What I'm worried about is the long term risks to peoples health from not being able to access their usual appointments for chronic conditions.

Family members have had appointments postponed indefinitely.

I hope they dont see long term consequences of not being monitored properly.

But some no doubt will. At great personal cost and to the NHS.

So no, I dont want everyone to ' just get it'. Yes we've all heard of long covid. I'd like to see a better balance.

OP, do you have any response?

I remember reading lots of threads on here telling people not to call in sick when they have a cold etc. No one cared about passing stuff on to Bob and sue before but now it's protect them at all costs…I fucking agree. Before Covid no one gave not one shit about bringing bugs and viruses into schools and workplaces

Not true. I remember those MN threads, but as well as the 'go to work unless you've got a limb hanging off' brigade there was always also a cohort on the same threads saying 'Stay at home; people don't want your germs and your workplace will not implode if you have a day off.'