To all those all think let's just let everyone get it...

[Patchworkpatty]

I am increasingly frustrated by this mindset. It assumes that you will either get Covid (akin to a cough and a temperature) which will last a few days... Or die if you are 'vulnerable' (huge argument to what that means) and that it's better just to get the vulnerable to shield whilst the rest let it sweep across the population .

Can I please ask you to listen to 'Long Covid' on BBC Radio 4 at 11:30. Presented by the Scientist Adam Rutherford.

He was healthy 42 year old. Struck down on the 17th of March.
He has spent the last months investigating the after effects of this so called 'mild illness' on the younger population , looking at the affect on blood clotting, kidneys, chronic breathlessness and debilitating fatigue amongst other issues . ? A phenomenon known as 'Long Covid' .

... and then tell me if you feel quite so laid back about getting this ?

I should have said I found the Economist stats myself as those shouting about it seem to have no idea about evidence rather than anecdotes.

Pre-COVID, people were afraid to stay off work if they had flu or a sickness bug as they risked being penalised by their workplace. All it takes is a run of bad luck with kids bringing home bugs from school and it’s quite possible to have a couple of bouts of illness in a few months.

People don’t come into work when they are ill to be selfish adm intentionally spread it to colleagues. They do it out of self preservation and a desire to keep their job. The workplace culture does not support people staying at home when they are sick.

I have worked from home for the past 15 years and it’s quite normal for my colleagues to be on calls when they are clearly too ill to be there. Luckily for us, we are at home so don’t spread it throughout the team.

I'm balancing risks, OP.

And as for "long Covid": I've had "long flu" several times (i.e. flu which becomes pneumonia and then drags on for six months, leaving me coughing and exhausted and ill), only"long flu" is evidently not worthy of having an Special Name, because it's not as Special as Covid.

The one question I keep asking and getting no answer to is, if you're against everyone getting it, how do you propose to make that happen long term? Currently the choice isn't between getting or not getting covid, it's between getting it now or getting it later. There is an argument to be made for slowing down the rate at which it proceeds through the population, but the idea that you can avoid it forever is just bonkers - how on earth would that be possible unless you stay in your house for years to come? I know people talk about a vaccine but there's absolutely no guarantee it'll ever happen.

Plenty of people say the restrictions are for a.few months or a year and that is no hardship BUT that is a made up time period seemingly to make themselves feel better and to stop thinking about the hard questions. It is like a carrot dangling.
The Economist also said that even if a vaccine was developed at the start of next year, mass vaccination could only really happen by 2024.

OP I have always thought that any illness could strike you down at any time. That's why I have had critical illness and life assurance for many many years.

So yes I am pretty laid back about it because I know shit happens all the time even from viral and bacterial infections.

Question back to you. Have you never considered you can die or become chronically ill before now?

@JamSarnie

OP I have always thought that any illness could strike you down at any time. That's why I have had critical illness and life assurance for many many years.

So yes I am pretty laid back about it because I know shit happens all the time even from viral and bacterial infections.

Question back to you. Have you never considered you can die or become chronically ill before now?

That's what I wonder too - it seems that a lot of people are only becoming aware of how vulnerable they really are for the first time. It also strikes me as odd that people think it's fine to stay away from family members for months on end because they'll see them eventually. Are they not aware that people die all the time of other things? That even if their loved one is 'saved' from covid, they could still die of a heart attack, or a stroke, or an accident? How many people will stay apart from older people for months only for those people to die of other causes having missed out on family interaction and normality in their last weeks and months?

There seems to be attitude that denying people social interaction is worth it even if the outcome of that is negative or pointless. I don't get it at all.

🥱

My niece developed Encephalitis, from a bout of flu in the 1989 epidemic, which killed approx 26,000 inn the UK that year.
If it were not for that, I would be oblivious to the fact there was an epidemic that year.

Getting it later is preferable as there might be

• new treatments
• a vaccine or vaccine
• better understanding of complications

and a bit more time before you have complications of illness or, of course, death.

You might even miss the epidemic altogether, as historically they tend to last a couple of years before petering away.

It is usually a good idea to defer getting ill, if you possibly can.

@ChodeOfChodeBall

I'm balancing risks, OP.

And as for "long Covid": I've had "long flu" several times (i.e. flu which becomes pneumonia and then drags on for six months, leaving me coughing and exhausted and ill), only"long flu" is evidently not worthy of having an Special Name, because it's not as Special as Covid.

Flu is about 1/10 as lethal as covid.

As regards long term effects, we don't really know enough about covid to compare it with anything,

Sorry I mean we don't know enough about the long term effects of covid to do a formal analysis of how the after effects of flu are different.

That's true, Herecomesthesun.

I think one of the many things that pisses me off about Covid is that it's so bloody Special that it even gets a special name for when it drags on and causes complications.

In my case, boring old seasonal flu causes pneumonia, pleurisy, chronic fatigue and a cough which lasts for six months and makes me vomit because once I start, I can't stop. Swine Flu did the same.

I do, fortunately, qualify for a flu vaccine due to all the above complications having arisen every time I've had flu.

If I get it again, I'm going to call it Long Flu.

Gah my son was in and out of hospital with bronchiolitis after colds in his first year, it was awful

What.aboit the long term effects of having no income?!

That's what I wonder too - it seems that a lot of people are only becoming aware of how vulnerable they really are for the first time. It also strikes me as odd that people think it's fine to stay away from family members for months on end because they'll see them eventually. Are they not aware that people die all the time of other things? That even if their loved one is 'saved' from covid, they could still die of a heart attack, or a stroke, or an accident?

You may be right that many who are very worried about Covid are of the mindset you suspect, but I also have wondered whether that is the case with people who are very gung ho about it. Many are very much 'oh we are all superfit and never unwell, we aren't worried at all'. I find that those who have lost family members young, or already struggle with illness, are actually likely to worry about covid because they don't have any feeling that bad things only happen to others and 'it couldn't happen to me'.

I think it is really natural to think 'it couldn't happen to me' when you have had an easy ride, it's actually helpful and keeps people positive to have a degree of denial about possible pending disaster. But once some terrible things have happened to you, you look at nightmarish situations and you know 'yes, it could'...not just logically know but really know.

If you get long covid your ability to work will be hindered for months. Your mental health could well suffer as you are not the person you were. At a time when it's almost impossible to get a doctor appointment face to face. You don't know the long term health implications of your post viral issues. I know its only a small percentage but if you are young fit and healthy this can still happen. Out of my family of 6. 3 had long term breathing difficulties. 2 very fit healthy adults and a super fit teen.

@thecatsatonthewall

On an individual level every death is sad but on a societal scale you have to acknowledge that sometimes, some things are more important than death, or illness

We 've seen what happens when the NHS tries to deal with CV with no restriction - it took months and 42k death (nearer 60k on ONS figures) before infection rates dropped.

Of course we need an economy and a functioning education system too but with no restrictions and CV allowed to sweep across the country, there will be no economy.

Many people think the vulnerable are stuck in a care home but 30m people in this country are eligible for a free flu jab, due to age or pre existing health conditions i.e asthma heart conditions, diabetes.
Thats many teachers, nurses, builders etc etc who will have to isolate or get very ill.

100s of 1000s of people getting sick and filling up our hospitals year in year out (no vaccine so far) will ensure no other healthcare is given, leading to even more deaths and long term illness.

The 30 million who is eligible for a free flu jab is not all due to old age or healthconditions. Children get flu jabs, pregnant women, people in certain jobs etc. This year this will include even older school children, who have close to zero chanece of dying from either covid or flu. I got offered a free flu jab this year as i have a genetic cancer condition for example. I was really suprised when i got the letter. As my condition doesnt make me vulnarable. So 30 million free flu jabs really doesnt mean they are all vulnerable. ( i have already had covid )

@Inkpaperstars

That's what I wonder too - it seems that a lot of people are only becoming aware of how vulnerable they really are for the first time. It also strikes me as odd that people think it's fine to stay away from family members for months on end because they'll see them eventually. Are they not aware that people die all the time of other things? That even if their loved one is 'saved' from covid, they could still die of a heart attack, or a stroke, or an accident?

You may be right that many who are very worried about Covid are of the mindset you suspect, but I also have wondered whether that is the case with people who are very gung ho about it. Many are very much 'oh we are all superfit and never unwell, we aren't worried at all'. I find that those who have lost family members young, or already struggle with illness, are actually likely to worry about covid because they don't have any feeling that bad things only happen to others and 'it couldn't happen to me'.

I think it is really natural to think 'it couldn't happen to me' when you have had an easy ride, it's actually helpful and keeps people positive to have a degree of denial about possible pending disaster. But once some terrible things have happened to you, you look at nightmarish situations and you know 'yes, it could'...not just logically know but really know.

I dont worry about covid, and i certainly dont have the mindset that bad things happen to others only. I have a very rare genetic condition, i lost the sight in one eye as a teenager and i have a slow growing (benign) brain tumour amongst other things... maybe it is because of all of these things im in the mindset that life is preciously short and hiding away from a virus , waiting to see our loved ones once it is all over might be too late for some people. Also, i can put things into perspective and although i wouldnt go as far as saying im all gung ho about im really not worried. Or maybe i have no mental energy to worry about a virus that i will very very likely recover from anyway. I cant speak for all people who have health problems of course.

@Elcantador I did not say that 30m are vulnerable but an awful lot of those will be.
They cannot all shield or avoid getting Covid, very quickly they will completely over run the NHS, if CV was left to its own devices.

One of the many reasons we have had such a high death rate is our very unhealthy population.

@Elcantador If you ve already had CV then of course you don't really need to worry to much.

Fwiw, though not tested i too was v ill in the spring and had all the classic CV symptoms but it still makes me think that allowing CV to run riot is a very very bad idea.

Post-viral illness has always been an issue and of course we do not know the long-term implications of this after COVID-19. However, we can easily guess the implications of restricting healthcare for other illnesses and conditions and economic meltdown. We can’t have another lockdown in my opinion, it would decimate the country. As other posters have said, we need to balance the risks on a societal level of lockdown vs restrictions/ carrying on living. On a personal level, I’d much rather my DH had face to face assessments following removal of melanoma last year rather than telephone appointments. Now he’s got a lump in his scar and been told that usually they would operate to remove, but because of COVID, he isn’t a priority and should have a ultrasound sound to confirm the worst (ie, delaying things further). My question is, when do people like this become a priority? What’s more important? COVID or all the other things we could potentially die of?

Depends on your circumstances doesn’t it. I don’t have the liberty of having a ‘fuck it I could get knocked down by a bus tomorrow attitude’ as I live with my elderly vulnerable parents.

It does feel like they are putting their lives on the line for us, it’s humbling to be honest.

Have to say though one of them has been extremely ill recently (don’t think it’s COVID, waiting for results) and the NHS have been absolutely amazing.
DC has also needed medical care and again, they’ve been given everything they needed.
I had to have examinations for a cancer scare during lock down, the hospital was brilliant.
But they do always say it’s a postcode lottery.

@Elcantador I totally understand and your attitude seems more than fair. I think there is a mixture on all sides....as I said it may well be some people are fearful because nothing really bad has happened to them yet, while others are fearful because it has. Also there will be some who are less fearful because they already have high awareness and experience of problems, and others less fearful precisely because they don't.

Put like that my point sounds fairly meaningless