To all those all think let's just let everyone get it...

[Patchworkpatty]

I am increasingly frustrated by this mindset. It assumes that you will either get Covid (akin to a cough and a temperature) which will last a few days... Or die if you are 'vulnerable' (huge argument to what that means) and that it's better just to get the vulnerable to shield whilst the rest let it sweep across the population .

Can I please ask you to listen to 'Long Covid' on BBC Radio 4 at 11:30. Presented by the Scientist Adam Rutherford.

He was healthy 42 year old. Struck down on the 17th of March.
He has spent the last months investigating the after effects of this so called 'mild illness' on the younger population , looking at the affect on blood clotting, kidneys, chronic breathlessness and debilitating fatigue amongst other issues . ? A phenomenon known as 'Long Covid' .

... and then tell me if you feel quite so laid back about getting this ?

@MaxinesTaxi

How aware were you of possible long term effects of viruses before Covid? Because none of this is a great shock to me. I’m as concerned about it as I am about any illness that might make it difficult for me to care for my children and keep a roof over our heads, or passing on what (for me) is a mild illness to my clinically vulnerable relatives. What measures did you take before now to minimise the risks of catching or passing on infectious diseases?

I agree I hadn't previously realised how common post viral syndromes are and I will now be much more careful about avoiding respiratory infections I used to smugly think that I didn't often get flu because I have strong immune system, now I realise it's my solitary lifestyle that keeps me safe and I intend to double down on that from now on!!

Yanbu (even though I know it's not one).
Until we have more data on what long term effects there are I'm happy to keep my head down.
I'd like to keep myself healthy into middle age and I'm a largely isolated lone parent so I'm not going to whinge about the lack of social life or family. A year of this isn't really a drama as I've already done a decade 🤷‍♀️.

Heartened greatly by the responses here which seem more balanced than what I see IRL. I'm really grieving for our previous freedoms (which I took completely for granted, well why wouldn't I?)

I think that CHOICE is a really important thing that's becoming harder to come by.

Never thought of it before but perhaps (current govt aside) this is why the Tories are ultimately so popular, because they place such a lot of value on choice?

''The problem is you balancing your ability to see family, socialise, eat out etc. with someone else’s risk of serious illness or death.'' @MyPersona

No! it is not a binary/black and white choice between health and having fun with your mates...

Lockdowns have an equally devastating effect on people's health both mental and physical.

I have an 80 year old relative who ended up in hospital for a month. Not because of Covid, but because the isolation caused her mind to deteriorate to such an extent she had to end up in a psychiatric ward.

A former colleague in her 70s had her ongoing cancer treatment stopped for three months.

I had an operation postponed and was in chronic pain while I waited for NHS work to resume.

People are losing their jobs and we are destroying the economy. This also has a long term effect to their welfare.

Time to redress the balance.

It is completely disingenuous to suggest that people who don't support drastic lockdowns/restrictions are just selfish.

It is about looking at the bigger picture.

Also, we gave lockdowns a try. They have not worked in any country. To me it is foolish to repeat a losing strategy and parrot some nonsense argument about health vs your right to party...

All that this 'long covid' bollocks tells me is that pre-covid people were extraordinarily ignorant of the effect of infections on people.

11 million people die of infections of all sorts every year. Many millions more suffer long term effects, including organ damage, lung problems, problems with their immune systems. This is not a new thing. The fact that people seem to be noticing it now doesn't make it any more deadly or awful. It just means that prior to this situation you lived in blissful ignorance. Wanging on about it now as though it's a massive new thing that everyone has to take notice of just makes you look a bit thick tbh.

@Jrobhatch29

Phenomenon get real, post viral syndrome has been around forever. 10% of people with Glandular fever get it. My mam got myocarditis after flu 3 years ago.

Yes 'long covid' is just normal post viral syndrome/post viral fatigue. It's not some special thing on its own!

I am not in the let everyone get it group, I'm just aware that a virus is gonna spread, that's what they do. Us humans are not gods and not matter what we do we cannot stop a virus from spreading.

Unless we all don't leave our houses which is not viable long term.

TheDailyCarbuncle

@Namechange313

No thanks I’d rather not lose my job and mine and DDs home. I’m sure many others wouldn’t either. The flu can also damage people long term, it’s a risk with many illnesses

This sums it up for me !

@MaxinesTaxi

How aware were you of possible long term effects of viruses before Covid? Because none of this is a great shock to me. I’m as concerned about it as I am about any illness that might make it difficult for me to care for my children and keep a roof over our heads, or passing on what (for me) is a mild illness to my clinically vulnerable relatives. What measures did you take before now to minimise the risks of catching or passing on infectious diseases?

I have been very aware of this for some time, and of the link between certain viruses and cancer (multifactorial and largely out of our control since the viruses are so common). I actually have taken many of the hygeine measures I take re covid for years, sometimes to an unhealthy degree.

I still do think covid is different though, the prevalence of long term effects seems quite high particularly loss of sense of smell. Lung damage has been observed in asymptomatic cases, and in general we have no idea yet of the long term consequences. Most of the other viruses I try to avoid are ones I am likely to have already had or unlikely to catch....that is not the case with covid for most people. I may have had it but don't know if any immunity persists.

I think OP has a point that the vulnerable and those who predict they will have a harmless and mild infection cannot actually be easily categorised. If you are prepared to face facts and then balance your risk, why be hesitant to hear about the more difficult cases? You don't have to change your attitude afterwards, but refusing to even listen seems a bit fingers in ears, lah lah lah.

This thread must be the most sensible one on here ......

“ If you are prepared to face facts and then balance your risk, why be hesitant to hear about the more difficult cases? You don't have to change your attitude afterwards, but refusing to even listen seems a bit fingers in ears, lah lah lah”

Was that aimed at me directly? I listened live (it was actually on at 11am rather than 11.30 as the OP stated). Why would you assume this is my attitude?

The thing is, we can't stop it from spreading unless we

1. don't care about where our next meal is coming from (wrecked economy = no jobs = no income = no food)
2. we manage to get a vaccine and are able to vaccinate EVERYONE witin days/ weeks! So until then, I will follow the advice but I also know it will "ripp" through the population until it has run its course...

@Namechange313

No thanks I’d rather not lose my job and mine and DDs home. I’m sure many others wouldn’t either. The flu can also damage people long term, it’s a risk with many illnesses

Many people on here seem to feel that only the restrictions (and not the ecomomic consequences of uncontrolled exponential growth of the virus itself) are the threat to their jobs and homes. They seem to feel that the restrictions are in place just to prevent illness and death of 'vulnerable' people, and not to protect everyone from the economic and social effects of the virus raging to a natural peak.

I don't personally see it that way, so for me presenting this a choice between taking the virus seriously and keeping your job or home makes close to zero sense.

Flu is dangerous, yes. Every single doctor or academic expert I have heard or read on this topic is keen to stress that covid is not the flu and is a much greater threat. It also spreads much more easily due to asymptomatic spreaders. Some of the blood clotting seen in coivd patients is basically off the scale. Doctors I know have told me (and the media) that the level of stickiness in the blood is far greater than ever seen before in any circumstances or illness. Others have said that what shocked them about covid was how I'll it made previously young and fit people, they specifically said that the flu made fewer of this group very sick.

Just speaking for myself, not sure I have ever had flu and if I have it has been ok. Covid I think I caught within weeks of its arrival in the UK, and still have a completely buggered sense of smell.

@MaxinesTaxi

“ If you are prepared to face facts and then balance your risk, why be hesitant to hear about the more difficult cases? You don't have to change your attitude afterwards, but refusing to even listen seems a bit fingers in ears, lah lah lah”

Was that aimed at me directly? I listened live (it was actually on at 11am rather than 11.30 as the OP stated). Why would you assume this is my attitude?

No sorry Maxines that bit wasn't aimed at you at all! Should have been clearer, sorry.

I am from a family of doctors and medical researchers (my parents, siblings and aunts/uncles/cousins). I am not one, but I work across NHS trusts with HCPs in medical research. There are varying professional experiences of Covid and its effects. Most who have spoken to me have been much less certain of how much we can compare Covid with other viruses, simply because it hasn’t been very much time yet. The threat is more in the not having enough information yet. However none are surprised that a proportion of the population are experiencing in some cases severe long term effects.

No worries inkpaperstars, I shouldn’t have got prematurely defensive!

I don't think many people think 'Just let everyone get it' at all, but a lot of people are opposed to further lockdown and restrictions for legitimate reasons.

I am 100% behind having measures in place such as distancing, the curfew, having to book into places rather than just arrive, limiting numbers within venues, but I would not be supportive of another major lockdown or a blanket ban on households mixing.

Short term restrictions for places with high cases, good idea. But indeterminate-length restrictions across the board when some areas have barely any cases at all while others have hundreds? It's just not on and messes with people's mental health and wellbeing in other ways.

Back in March I agreed with what we termed lockdown. Pressing a pause button and giving us time to, in great mumsnet tradition, get our ducks in a row and put strategies in place to reduce the spread of the virus as much as is practical.

We did that, so now we need to start finding the right balance between living our lives as normally as possible whilst keeping cases low enough that the NHS can cope.

Those that are younger and less vulnerable to serious side effects should be able to get on with things and those that those that are more vulnerable can protect themselves.

Flu vaccinations were mentioned earlier. Flu vaccines are routinely offered by the NHS to the most vulnerable - children, the elderly and people with certain other conditions. It is not a universal vaccine, if you fall outside the parameters then you have to pay privately.

what is it you want from us? To panic more?

the vast majority of people who will be exposed to Covid will have had no real choice about it. It will be because of their work or their children.

Im waiting on a test right now. Ive been really careful, but of course kids are all back at school and i desperatly want schools to stay open.
Im not blasé about getting covid and I dont know many people who are. I am relieved by the fact that statistically if we get it, it will be mild, but that doesnt mean we dont realise it could be bad. We havent been living under a fucking rock

If the important evidence is anecdotes then there are thousands of anecdotes from people who had mild covid & no after effects. I don't think policy should be set purely based on their anecdotes, either.

@Branleuse

what is it you want from us? To panic more?

the vast majority of people who will be exposed to Covid will have had no real choice about it. It will be because of their work or their children.

Im waiting on a test right now. Ive been really careful, but of course kids are all back at school and i desperatly want schools to stay open.
Im not blasé about getting covid and I dont know many people who are. I am relieved by the fact that statistically if we get it, it will be mild, but that doesnt mean we dont realise it could be bad. We havent been living under a fucking rock

Exactly this. I’m doing my best not to contract and pass on this virus. If I catch it, it’ll be because my children are at school (currently isolating while awaiting a test result for one of my DC). So telling me I might get long Covid (I’ve actually already had it) is helpful how?

I'm not laid back about getting it, but I don't think hiding behind the sofa for years, trashing the economy, trashing many people's mental health, neglecting other types of healthcare etc. is worth it against a virus acting like a virus and which for the vast, vast majority of people is a mild illness.

I have a colleague left with a permanent disabled after contracting swine flu, a friend who suffered after effects of flu for years, a relative who took months to fully get over shingles - post viral syndromes have always been a thing.

I don’t want everyone to get it, but the damage done to some people in lockdown has been catastrophic. It’s fine to lock some people away, many have loved it. But others have been denied medical care and died. Many kids have taught themselves stuff from textbooks and YouTube. Other kids didn’t learn anything at all. Some form of life has to go on.

I posted on another thread asking for stats about long covid because lots of people like to shout about it. The Economist this week said the stats show around 1% of covid 19 cases result in long term significant affects.