To all those all think let's just let everyone get it...

[Patchworkpatty]

I am increasingly frustrated by this mindset. It assumes that you will either get Covid (akin to a cough and a temperature) which will last a few days... Or die if you are 'vulnerable' (huge argument to what that means) and that it's better just to get the vulnerable to shield whilst the rest let it sweep across the population .

Can I please ask you to listen to 'Long Covid' on BBC Radio 4 at 11:30. Presented by the Scientist Adam Rutherford.

He was healthy 42 year old. Struck down on the 17th of March.
He has spent the last months investigating the after effects of this so called 'mild illness' on the younger population , looking at the affect on blood clotting, kidneys, chronic breathlessness and debilitating fatigue amongst other issues . ? A phenomenon known as 'Long Covid' .

... and then tell me if you feel quite so laid back about getting this ?

On an individual level every death is sad but on a societal scale you have to acknowledge that sometimes, some things are more important than death, or illness

We 've seen what happens when the NHS tries to deal with CV with no restriction - it took months and 42k death (nearer 60k on ONS figures) before infection rates dropped.

Of course we need an economy and a functioning education system too but with no restrictions and CV allowed to sweep across the country, there will be no economy.

Many people think the vulnerable are stuck in a care home but 30m people in this country are eligible for a free flu jab, due to age or pre existing health conditions i.e asthma heart conditions, diabetes.
Thats many teachers, nurses, builders etc etc who will have to isolate or get very ill.

100s of 1000s of people getting sick and filling up our hospitals year in year out (no vaccine so far) will ensure no other healthcare is given, leading to even more deaths and long term illness.

www.cdc.gov/flu/about/keyfacts.htm
Even if flu and covid had the same percentage of infected individuals suffering long-term, in the US 3-11% of people catch flu every year (average 8%). Unchecked covid infections will lead to a much higher percentage of people becoming infected and therefore a greater proportion of the population suffering long-term effects and unable to work etc. Long-term effects are also not just restricted to people who were ill enough to go to hospital.

This thread has gone round and round so many times...

@middleager

I'm not laid back. But I'm absolutely terrified of what my children's education and future will be as they enter their GCSE years.

But it feels like we are locking up the young and well to protect the vulnerable.

We wouldn't have to if the people took enough action to not infect the vulnerable.

YABU as all viral diseases have some proportion of nasty fall out for some people. Young, healthy people sometimes die or suffer long lasting immunity related issues after contracting the flu. Some people have nasty reaction to attenuated viruses in vaccines. It happens. Yet we don't shut down society for these things.

And it really is the case like the Madrid mayor said that cars are a major killer of humanity, a harm that we voluntarily do to ourselves every day. If you want to save lives, stop driving.

OP you can have life long repercussions from multiple illnesses, not just COVID. Thats not a new thing, unfotunately its something humans just have to deal with.

I am not bothered if i get COVID, i want to enjoy my life, and being afraid and locked down isn't the way forward.
If people want yo minimise their risk of catching it they can, but don't force everyone else to do the same

I and two other women in my office of 40 have been ill since march with this virus. Only one of us is back at work. I would conjecture that the rate of serious post-viral illness with covid is higher than in many other illnesses. I am.not fatigued but I can no longer walk further than the end of my road, continue to suffer serious chest pains and numb limbs, have developed a thyroid problem and my vision has seriously declined.

I and two other women in my office of 40 have been ill since march with this virus. Only one of us is back at work. I would conjecture that the rate of serious post-viral illness with covid is higher than in many other illnesses.

Based on your sample of three? That is quite a conjecture. Are you and your two colleagues representative of the population of Britain?

I mean I know about five or six other people with long lasting effects, all of us under 40. Of course I don't know. But I agree with the poster above who suggested that just because all viruses can cause post-viral effects, doesn't mean they all cause it at the same rate.

Having a healthy lifestyle and losing weight are two of the best ways of reducing Covid risks but of course there's no money in that for the pharma vaccine companies and/or some people can’t be bothered to make the effort.

(Speaking as a previously fit 49 year old, who had ‘long covid’ for 16 weeks, now exercising again)

@MummyPop00

Having a healthy lifestyle and losing weight are two of the best ways of reducing Covid risks but of course there's no money in that for the pharma vaccine companies and/or some people can’t be bothered to make the effort.

(Speaking as a previously fit 49 year old, who had ‘long covid’ for 16 weeks, now exercising again)

100% agree with this!

It is frustrating me to no end that people are frothing at the mouth about wearing masks and pretty much extensively socially distancing until we get the pinnacle that is a vaccine.

There is barely a mention about diet and fitness, which would equip us tremendously better against this than the current approach we're taking.

It's a silly argument... Every singke illness can have long term effects of a small amount of people that get it. This is not new Information but the givernment will highlight it (quite rightly) to scare people into complying.

However its a nothing story as it happens with any illness you just never here about it with other illness as people don't care.

MaxinesTaxi and pp's have said it all.

Risk of death and long term effects from viruses and so many other causes have been a part of everyones life from the day they were born. It's a great question to ask: what were we all doing to mitigate those causes previous to the mass hysteria of covid? I reckon we were assessing the risks and taking our chances, yes? Gov and MSM have irresponsibly frightened so many people into believing that if they just follow the rules they can avoid getting ill and dying as if covid is the only risk out there.

When it becomes obvious to everyone that this 'second wave' is not the killer its made out to be, are we going to be as terrified of flu and it's detrimental effect on our older and more immune compromised members of society?

PHE say an average of 15,000 people die from flu per year. Should we continue to to panic, wear masks and not hug our grannies just incase we infect them with that virus?

PHE say an average of 15,000 people die from flu per year. Should we continue to to panic, wear masks and not hug our grannies just incase we infect them with that virus?

No, we should continue to get our children and ourselves vaccinated each year against flu to reduce the chance of spreading it to our grannies.
As we will hopefully do for covid once there is a vaccine

@Barearseloverofthigh
Should we continue to ... wear masks and not hug our grannies just incase we infect them with that virus?

Yes to wearing masks.

We aren't planning to visit our one remaining granny, in the very near future, at her request - she is choosing to be very careful and limit contacts -but are really happy to help with organising Ocado orders. We last saw her for her 95th birthday party about 6 weeks ago. We didn't hug her, but then she isn't big on hugging in normal times.

I think panicking wouldn't help at all. But masks really do, in situations of close contact, especially indoors.

@shoofle

I mean I know about five or six other people with long lasting effects, all of us under 40. Of course I don't know. But I agree with the poster above who suggested that just because all viruses can cause post-viral effects, doesn't mean they all cause it at the same rate.

Were you all tested? I know lots of people who think they had Covid in March but were never tested.

It’s the “I would never forgive myself if I passed on the virus to someone vulnerable” thing that is particularly damaging. Absolutely minimising risks in simple ways is sensible, basic hygiene etc. But you do realise that you will have, in the past, passed on viruses that will have eventually reached someone vulnerable and/or who died of complications, and you will in future? We have always been mindful in my family of reducing contact with a vulnerable member if we have a cold, because previous admissions to ICU have happened. But the notion of blame and immorality being attached to individuals for passing on a virus that takes advantage of natural human behaviour is really bizarre and damaging

My young DC was very worried about the idea of catching the virus and giving it to me and we had a conversation about how these can things happen with a pandemic. But it wouldn't be his fault. And his education is very important.

He is very keen on wearing his face mask in school. And he checks we have and use hand sanitiser when we go out.

A huge number of diseases have lasting effects. Flu can and does. Cancer does. Diabetes does. STDs do. I could go on. Covid is not special or different. The difference is we don't kill the economy, fuck the education and future prospects of whole generations of children, leave thousands with mental health issues, give away our civil liberties, leave millions without access to the health care they need, due to our REACTION to those things.

I’d prefer long Covid to long recession tbh!

No, we should continue to get our children and ourselves vaccinated each year against flu to reduce the chance of spreading it to our grannies.

But despite the vaccines there are still thousands of deaths so why are we still prepared to hug our grannies even though we might pass on a deadly virus (not just covid)? It's because there's been no mass hysteria whipped up by the MSM about the risk of passing on all the other respiratory viruses and so we've not given them a second thought. People have died and yet somehow we've been ok with accepting those deaths.

No, we should continue to get our children and ourselves vaccinated each year against flu to reduce the chance of spreading it to our grannies

I don’t get offered the flu vaccine. I do still see my 87 year old grannie.

@Todaythiscouldbe

Yes we all work in a hospital setting

I fucking agree. Before Covid no one gave not one shit about bringing bugs and viruses into schools and workplaces. Bugs which could have harmed vulnerable people. Before Covid if your child missed a day at school it was hugely detrimental to their education and you'd have a threatening letter before long. Now it's cries of close the schools.

Seems like now is a great opportunity to change all this. Rather than say let’s go back to the old habits. A culture that’s more conscientious of others and puts less pressure on the health service by encouraging sick people to rest at home rather than dragging themselves to school or work sounds like an improvement.

I think it's a case of sensible precautions at the moment. There may well come a time when we just have to open everything up, particularly if a vaccination is not going to come. After all, we had bubonic plague for hundreds of years - outbreaks, disappears, outbreaks in rotation. Plague still has no vaccination, but we can treat it with antibiotics if we identify it quickly enough.

But, at the moment, it is a case of protection of the 'semi vulnerable' as I call it. People like our DS who was born with a heart condition. He can go to school so he is. He's taking his chance as his consultant believes he should be as 'safe' as any of his friends. He has a friend who is diabetic (type 1) and that classmate is only going in every other day on advice from their consultant. A girl in another year has had leukaemia when she was a toddler, but is able to go to school and another had a brain tumour about three years ago.

I have a family member who is in her 30s who had a brain tumour. She has to work, she has a mortgage and two children. No-one will pay the mortgage if she or her DH isn't working.

DS has at least two teachers who have cancer. Do we put those two teachers, less than 40 years old, out of the school at a time when we need all the teachers we can get? Or do we try to protect them by asking their classes to wear a mask - which every child is doing as they see it as their job to help BTW? There have been no moans from the kids or their parents to do this for one lesson as week to protect their teacher.

The point is there is getting on with it - going back to pre-Covid times - or living with Covid in the community. It looks different to me. Masks as much as possible inside, if you can. Being sensible - if you pitch up to a pub and it's looking busy go somewhere else. Book a seat for the cinema or museums or whatever. Book a restaurant seat, don't just turn up expecting to be seated at the bar waiting for a space. There's nothing hard about that. It's just a new norm - it's an inconvenience to think ahead but it's no more than that.

We went out to a number of places over the summer holiday - Beulieu, Monkey World etc., where we had to wear masks. In the hottest week of the year. Yes, it was uncomfortable. But it was our choice to go that week. We could have waited. So no moans from us. We ate out and enjoyed every moment. We stayed in a hotel. But we masked up, sanitised and used commonsense. That's not hard and it didn't impact on our DS's chance of having 'normality'.

Just a little bit of thought along the lines of 'if I do this how is it going to impact me, or that teacher/child at the school with a major illness' and adjusting things just a tweak can make all the difference.

Not every person who is vulnerable or semi vulnerable can shield - there was a piece on Five Live today about a little girl living with cancer. Her sister is at school. Does that sister have to give up her schooling just so some other child can do 'everything' they want to do? Or could the other child just ease off 'everything' just a little to save bringing Covid into the school?

It's not a case of giving everything up - as I said we took our heart child to various places over the summer and we've got plans to do the same in October. We don't expect special treatment, we just expect people to follow the rules around at the time so he's still got a life to enjoy when this is over. Just like we do to protect the elderly or those with other illnesses that they are battling. It's called being humane.