Here's an interesting view. Lockdown is actually extremely individualistic and throws the working class under the bus.

[Treesofwood]

twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1309030154837135362?s=09

People all ready to gout how selfish people are for questioning or refusing lockdown, it's all about saving lives, we have to do. It for the good of the vulnerable...

Well here is an opposite view. And I think it is very very true. All the questioning about who is impacted most and why. Those cocooned in their house, incomes protected "its not stuck at home its safe at home" rubbish. Who are lockdowns (local or national) really protecting? Who are actually vulnerable? And vulnerable to covid or destitution?

Shades of morlocks and eloi.

Someonetakemeback And as we move on it is becoming more and more apparent that a lot of the people initially on the shielding list are not as at risk as first thought. Also, some of those on the list have had time to make positive health decisions that will have had a good impact on their risk levels. Obviously they are not all 80. And should all be entitled to legal and financial protection.

The point I was making is that people have always had to give up work, either due to their health or their children's health and there was a pitiful amount of support out there for them.. And no one in authority, or even society in general, particularly seemed to care.

Agree 100%. 'We're all this together'. What a load of bullshit.

I don't think this is true at all.

The more middle class people stay at home and work, the safer it is for the key workers who have to work in person.

It doesn't only benefit the individuals who stay at home. It benefits all of us by making public transport less congested and the NHS less clogged up with cases and reducing the overall number of active Covid-19 cases circulating.

Who does it benefit to get everyone out of the house and back to working in the office???????

I have felt this from the start. It's the very middle class mumsnet that has proved this to me, absolutely no idea what is to be working class.

The class analogy is too simplistic. For example, the jobs of public sector and housing association trades are safe eg electricians and carpenters and waste people.

You are creating a false division. The people I see looking for ways to curtail the virus tend to also be the same posters who are most left leaning, advocating more support for struggling workers, more mental health provision, better social care, higher taxation etc. The ones arguing for less restrictions tend to be right wing libertarians.

I have a well paid job where I can WFH. I really don't want further restrictions precisely because it will destroy the jobs of people in hospitality, events etc and we can't have a functioning NHS and social support without a functioning economy.

I totally agree op.

If this pandemic had happened during my childhood then I would of been screwed!
All the panic buying would of meant the food we could of afforded was gone. We had no extra money for hand gel and endless bars of soap and home schooling would of been non existence.
The people I know are mor worried about paying bills ( especially with furlough ending) than getting ill.

Mumisnotmyonlyname But what if they are single parents unable to work due to multiple periods of self isolation. Unpaid parental leave. Public sector does not pay you lot to work, and neither do trades jobs, as you mentioned.

Does not pay you NOT to work, sorry

So what do people suggest ? It’s all ok to say it’s wrong and we can agree on that but what is the answer ?

Nellodee You are buying into a false correlation in my opinion.

I do really think there is a very serious argument to be had here.

And one that the fucking NHS App Zealots highlights particularly well, in exaggerating the existance of the two countries/cultures we live in at the same time.

There is a fantastic amount of people who can not see other people's reality. Often because doing so is pretty uncomfortable for all concerned.

There is an association with higher death rates and poverty.

Is this calling for a cull of the poor (whether in or out of work?)

@Treesofwood actually a lot of children were taken of the shielding list there is A lot of adults and some children still on, however what doesn’t make sense if there is only a very few amount of illness on the shielding list then why did they say things like “ well they had a n underlying health issue “ even if it was diabetes which is not on the shielding list ?

Someonetakemeback Some sort of universal payment, per year for everyone, including those in work and not in work. Enough to live on. So more than SSP and carers allowance for sure.

@Nellodee

You are creating a false division. The people I see looking for ways to curtail the virus tend to also be the same posters who are most left leaning, advocating more support for struggling workers, more mental health provision, better social care, higher taxation etc. The ones arguing for less restrictions tend to be right wing libertarians.

Talking about support doesn't help paycheck to paycheck workers. Actual support might, but caring conversations held amongst the middle classes don't offer practical help.

The working class want (and need) to work so they don't lose their homes - with Eng&W on track for mass evictions in March 2021.

It's not a false division. It's a real schism which needs talking about.

The scientists & medical experts are saying we need a stricter national lockdown (I know they are not all in agreement) but they are on not just a wage but a considerable wedge, and the working class are just about managing. Over 700,000 people have already lost their jobs and will struggle to find other work, but the scientists & top bod medics are in secure jobs.

Looking at how to improve outcomes by improving overall health. For everyone. Ensuring good quality access to healthcare still, for everyone. Not just covid patients.

Carreterra And are no doubt cashing in their shares as we speak.

It would be interesting to see how the right-wing self-styled ‘libertarians’ at the Torygraph who are raging against lockdown are actually living their own lives at the moment. Are they really practising what they preach by going into the office every day, using public transport, going to the shops, eating out, flying, socialising in pubs etc etc?

Or are they sitting at home hiding from the virus, having their groceries delivered while doing their employer’s bidding by hypocritically telling the rest of us to ignore scientific health advice from the safety of their spare bedrooms?

No prizes for guessing which is more likely...

I really hope that when this is over, we come out of it with a realisation that people on benefits and disability payments are not some “other” - they are the same as us, they don’t deserve to be in their position and we could easily be in theirs. I hope people see how much of a lottery life can be and vote for a party that will work together to provide a real safety net.

I completely agree that the working classes are the ones being most fucked over (isn’t it always the way). I don’t believe they’re being screwed by middle class mums who want to minimise COVID though. I think you need to point your anger a bit higher than that.

• what about middle class people who actually can not work at home ? Unless where I live is different 🤣

But they are not all rich enough to lose their jobs either !

I see both sides. I want to stop the virus and avoid a lockdown. For all the reasons mentioned. I don’t know what the answer is but it’s not just shutting the pubs at 10pm and throwing millions at the government’s mates in failed secret contracts.