Here's an interesting view. Lockdown is actually extremely individualistic and throws the working class under the bus.

[Treesofwood]

twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1309030154837135362?s=09

People all ready to gout how selfish people are for questioning or refusing lockdown, it's all about saving lives, we have to do. It for the good of the vulnerable...

Well here is an opposite view. And I think it is very very true. All the questioning about who is impacted most and why. Those cocooned in their house, incomes protected "its not stuck at home its safe at home" rubbish. Who are lockdowns (local or national) really protecting? Who are actually vulnerable? And vulnerable to covid or destitution?

StarCat2020
Our local Nuffield Hospital was take over for NHS cancer surgery during lockdown.

@Pixxie7

Tableflowerss@ not during the war they didn’t.

Indeed they were forced in to it and I think that was wrong as well. Of course the concept of war is wrong but that’s another thread.

You see it on the mask threads Apparently in all the posh areas everyone is mask compliant and in all the working class areas apparently people cant be bothered with masks.

They dont like it when you bring up the ski trips.................which the latter never went on.

New Zealand was allowing food (and other essential) imports. (Not sure if they still are?). It was simple. Essential travel with proper quarantine, i.e. arrivals taken to selected quarantine hotels. No wandering off on public transport to their homes or any old hotel. If the only arrivals are freight, medical, military, and asylum, it's easy to manage, track, and isolate, and contain.

@Tootletum

What I find so ironic is the total lack of interest in conditions in poor countries, where people don't get stuff delivered and can't just work from home or drive in private transport. Every life matters, except in poor countries where they'd better get to the sardine tin factories and keep making clothes for primark...

Quite a few poor countries like Vietnam and Senegal are doing well against the virus. Poor countries are more used to contagious diseases and have systems in place.

www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-23/how-did-vietnam-get-on-top-of-coronavirus-yet-again/12683008

www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/09/06/covid-19-why-senegal-outpacing-us-tackling-pandemic/5659696002/

As a Brit abroad I find all this bun fighting sad. The main issue is the failed response of the UK government to establish a proper track trace and isolation programme, or to have enough testing capacity. Everything else is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

I was very impressed early on with the effective measures (including strictly restricted borders) taken by Vietnam.

I don’t really understand the anger towards people working from home. How would it help if they were all out and about?

I understand the anger that people on low incomes aren’t being properly protected, but that’s a separate issue and is the fault of the government not the home workers.

Not supporting people in lockdown throws them under the bus. Not having a lockdown because you don't want to support people to do so is throwing them under the bus. Making people go to work so your CEO mates dont lose out is throwing people under the bus.

People who can work from home doing so is not throwing anyone under the bus.

This govtmernments ruthless incompetence has thrown people under the covid bus and the economic bus.

Try reading beyond the fucking torygraph.

Agree @Lindtballsrock
Longer-term (post pandemic) full-time permanent WFH isn't good for society or individuals (but more flexibility is). However during a time of rapidly increasing cases it all helps. Less people out and about helps to protect those who can't stay at home.

Again. It would've been better to have effectively contained Covid months ago - so that by now we'd all be back to largely normal.

Perhaps if we’d locked down, earlier in March and for long enough it would have helped. We opened up too soon with cases and deaths still too high and it was to help the economy. I get that. But if we’d waited another month and prosperous suppressed it... if we’d forgone foreign holidays got just one year... there wouldn’t have been rising transmission once schools opened. We would have had far lower transmission and we wouldn’t be where we are now. And there’s be less threat to the economy. We went for short term fix instead of long term plan.

Lockdown does disproportionately affect the poorest. But so does covid. It's the poorest in society most likely to have underlying health conditions, to live in overcrowded accommodation, to live in areas with high air pollution,to not get proper sick pay if they catch it.

And that's why it's important to keep levels as low as we possibly can.

I am worried about the virus, but do I want another lockdown? No. I want the levels to be lower. That will mean more people who are healthier, less disruption for schools, people more confident to spend so it will help the economy.

But the way things are going, it's not being managed well, and I worry that we will get to a point fairly soon that we will have to have another lockdown because like last time, things have been left too late and we will literally have no other choice. This government cannot be relied upon to manage this properly, unfortunately :-(

@Porcupineinwaiting

I think letting the virus run riot is throwing many working class people under the bus, precisely because they can't just hole up at home. Take a look at the States where people on low incomes are forced to go out to work and catch it - then lose their jobs (and health insurance) whilst they are sick.

You're deluded if you think we're any better, especially seeing how the NHS is operating, or not, in so many places and with no deal Brexit all but a certainty. Life father, like son.

As others say, many are not really risking their family home and their livelihood is recoverable, albeit damaged. You are always going to have more support for lockdown from those who do have a safe home and are risking only additional income.

According to the CDC’s latest released stats the flu is 10 times more deadly than coronavirus.

According to the ONS latest monthly mortality release, Covid19 recorded deaths were the 24th most common cause (dementia was number one.)

I am somewhat aghast at the socially engineered Overton window of debate whereby people are now arguing in all serious that others losing their job, home, car, and mental health is the rightful thing to do to protect others against a virus less lethal than the flu.

*allseriousness

@midsummabreak

As others say, many are not really risking their family home and their livelihood is recoverable, albeit damaged. You are always going to have more support for lockdown from those who do have a safe home and are risking only additional income.

Odd then that the most voracious opponents of lockdown are the rich - who life in a safe cocoon away from the high density deprived urban centres they make money out of.

Had they not pushed against containment measures at the start of the year, we'd be back to normal by now.

But I believe that it is actually the businesses people and large companies who are the noisiest and less welcoming of another lockdown, or as is the case in Melbourne Australia, who want to make noise to oppose extending lockdown for a very gradual return to normalcy.

Worried about their profit margins.

Can’t stand to lose more of their precious money and put profits over the vulnerable. Money matters more to them than strangers’ lives

Yes totally Agree @SheepandCow
Thinking same

Paul Banks is spending an absolute fortune on a campaign against lockdown in Melbourne- he is the The Managing director of Regional Reach Australia An and desperately wants to protect precious private enterprises over lives

I think the delivery people who bring my goods to my door, as I sit comfortably and safely in my home doing my MC wfh, are exposed to a shitload more people in the course of their day than I am. Covid has absolutely revealed the social inequality in the UK and it's a fucking disgrace

What is the better alternative, though? As someone who already worked from home with a job not affected by the pandemic, I was able to self-isolate very easily. I acknowledge how lucky I am... What else should/can I be doing?

@Namenic

Agree with sheep and cow. Tiny island Singapore with huge population density and v dependent on imports can shut borders and manage. Uk has farms, some natural resources. It’s ironic that the conservatives can’t manage border control when it matters most.

I agree that you probably won’t get elimination, but you can get good control and get back to reasonably normal like aus, nz etc.

I think you'll find that it's really important to keep track of the small number of people coming in on dinghies but the larger number of people coming in from areas with high levels of covid is less of an issue. They just need to promise they'll follow regulations.

Not read the whole thread but I don't earn much and have to work outside the home mostly, also have one child previously shielding only not now as shielding is paused. Also have lots of Fri who are key workers - shops, nursing homes, hcps, childminders.

From my point of view I'd like restrictions to stay in place as our household already has a larger element of risk going on in it due to some parts of my job not being able to be done from home and due to my child having to go to school in a non covid secure environment in order to access an education at all. People who are wfh and for whom the only impact is that they can't socialise in the same way as previously, well ... meh ...

@AhGoGo

Everyone in my immediate friend groups life has been massively impacted by coronavirus, and none of it is our health. We’ve all either lost or are clinging on to our jobs dearly.

Hospitality, live events, theatre production, wedding planning, hairdressing and retail.

People braying for further lockdowns/restrictions while the government tell us our jobs simple aren’t ‘viable’ and there’s no more help. Every day I wake up filled with even more gloom.

I agree with this, not all my immediate friend groups, but the HUGE majority. A large amount were just starting out their own businesses (am early 30s, it seems this is a usual time to try this? Unless my groups are out of whack with the usual) and have ploughed every penny they have into stuff like salons after working for other people since school. They are of course, extremely worried and stressed..such such bad timing. I know it can't be helped, but these people have been (rightly) worrying and talking about this ad the impact on their own lives, and getting a load of smug replies along the lines of 'well at least you are alive!' from those who are WFH and not at all concerned about losing their lifeline. Its causing huge problems and a lot of resentment too. Am actually on a FB break due to this, but I still talk on the phone with close friends and the same behaviour is happening all the time, and apparently getting worse while these people bleat on and on about how we should go into full lockdown and anyone who disagrees doesn't care about peoples lives!!! etc

Sorry, misread that all friend group were having job issues. Adding in anxiety, isolation, etc..yeah, probably all my immediate friend groups are having problems, and its not catching covid or concern about catching it either.