Being denied entry because you dont have the track and trace app?

[Rudolphian]

I haven't downloaded the app due to personal reasons.
I have started hearing stories about people being denied entry to pubs/ restaurants and cafes because they havent got the app.
Is this true?
Now I'm wondering what I'd do if it came into work, or if I'm told its compulsory to have to go to the supermarket?
Pretty sure its not a legal requirement yet.

I don’t expect restaurants to change their way of working (which they wouldn’t be as they have been collecting contact details by pen and paper all along). I don’t however expect them to blatantly lie and tell me it’s ‘the law’ that I have to have the app! If they don’t want my custom then fine, that’s their prerogative, just be honest about it.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

I don’t expect restaurants to change their way of working (which they wouldn’t be as they have been collecting contact details by pen and paper all along). I don’t however expect them to blatantly lie and tell me it’s ‘the law’ that I have to have the app! If they don’t want my custom then fine, that’s their prerogative, just be honest about it.

Why assume they are lying? As the saying goes "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

They are either lying, stupid or badly trained (probably the latter to be fair!).

Then again the stupidity of some people amazes me. We were asked to leave a restaurant on Saturday night as they decided DH’s temperature was too LOW!

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

In that case *@GeologyRox* the hospitality industry needs to stop moaning about how hard they have it, not expect to be bailed out and accept that many more venues will go under. If they can’t be inclusive and choose to twist the law to suit themselves then it’s tough if they have to close.

In what way precisely does twisting this law suit anyone? Least of all hospitality. The industry has had these things imposed on them, all of the measures that have been put in place make things harder, I know because I've done it. QR code - staff time taken up by customers who need help/argue the toss and therefore not serving customers. Costs money to employ staff to cover this service shortfall. Table service - twice as much work than people coming to the bar ordering and collecting their own drinks. Costs money to employ more staff to cover this shortfall. Apps for ordering - put in place so that customers can order directly. Costs money to implement, costs staff time to monitor, costs staff time to correct technology or customer errors. One way systems - costs money to put in place, takes staff time to monitor. Costs staff time using it. PPE - costs money to buy. Shutting at 10pm - this one saves a little on wages, but costs trade especially in places that have later licenses. Cleaning/sanitising, using single use items such as menu's - all cost money and staff time.

NONE of these systems have been put in place for the ease and convenience of the business or its staff. None. They've been put in place to meet guidelines/laws to ensure that hospitality venues can be open, so that customers can use them. So that thousands of people are back at work paying tax, so that businesses don't fold and jobs lost resulting in increased benefits claims.
But as long as people keep treating the industry like it's an enemy you need to bring justice to, none of it means a damned thing really. Places will close, there's no denying that, but the ones who stay open will be the ones who see a higher percentage of people who accept that things are different and this is the way it is and the way it's going to be until this virus is under some sort of control and these measures can be relaxed.
As I said before, public attitudes and refusal to accept that things have to be different are the biggest obstacle to the hospitality industry right now.

Not that many have downloaded it, max number I have seen is 10 million and many of them would be like me and deleted it soon after or kept the tracking off

I did the same. Deleted it on Sunday. Will have to download when we are out again this weekend, but will then delete. I will do it if I have to, to get into the bars I want to go in, but after that it is off my phone.

I'm not treating the industry like an enemy! There really has to be some give and take on both sides. It's perfectly legal for a restaurant to take details manually and at no point did I say I wouldn't give them, only that I didn't have the app (she didn't know I even had a phone with me). I don't often bother with a phone as I don't carry a bag and use my watch for everything.

There's no excuse for the stupidity of being asked to leave due to a low temperature though. We'd already been seated for a while before we were asked so as far as anyone watching was concerned DH had a high temperature.

[quote Ilovemypantry]**@PoisoningPigeons
Obviously if your phone doesn’t support the app then you can use the pen/paper tracking system in a pub/restaurant. I don’t think the government is expecting everyone to go out and buy a new/old phone.[/quote]
Well, in that case we are fervently in agreement 🤷🏻‍♀️ Many people do not own a compatible phone, are therefore not selfish for not downloading the app, and should not be turned away from establishments that they wish to patronise so long as they are willing to provide contact details by other means. Hurrah!

I'm not treating the industry like an enemy! There really has to be some give and take on both sides. It's perfectly legal for a restaurant to take details manually and at no point did I say I wouldn't give them, only that I didn't have the app (she didn't know I even had a phone with me). I don't often bother with a phone as I don't carry a bag and use my watch for everything.

Yes, perfectly legal. But something being allowed for in law does not mean it has to happen. If the owners of the business have taken that decision then it's their decision. Some customers are so used to having everything their own way and staff and management in hospitality doing things that may be to their own, the business or other customers detriment just to appease someone who wants everyone to dance to their tune, that now there's far more at stake than a bad review or a free bottle of wine, and business owners are sticking to their guns, and staff are carrying it out, people are unable to cope with it. They're so used to calling the shots and "The customer is always right" being translated to "The staff are always wrong" they are unable to see the bigger picture and past not getting their own way. The government, the businesses, the staff nor the customers are in control, this virus is, we can only take measures to mitigate the effect. Chanting "But it's legal" means nothing.

There's no excuse for the stupidity of being asked to leave due to a low temperature though. We'd already been seated for a while before we were asked so as far as anyone watching was concerned DH had a high temperature.

Not treating it like an enemy. With words like stupidity and lying in your posts. You show your disdain for the industry right there using language like that.
Fwiw I agree that asking you to leave because of a low temp is a bit odd, however as I've said, these measures have been dropped on the hospitality industry, and using them doesn't suddenly make waitresses and bar staff experts in biology or in virology, no matter how much you call them stupid or liars. They are also human beings, and as such are at some point going to make a mistake like any other human, or misinterpret information, but then I've long been aware that the public in general considers those who serve them falling beneath absolute perfection a heinous crime.

Well said @GeologyRox this pandemic is really bringing out the best and the worst of people.

I’m presuming you work in hospitality @GeologyRox.

If it makes you happier I’ll substitute ‘badly trained’ or ‘misinformed’ for lying. You also don’t have to be ‘an expert in virology’ to understand that a high temperature is an issue, not a low one.

I have never considered falling below perfection a ‘heinous crime’ as you put it. I understand that mistakes are made but it’s what companies do to put them right that matters.

Anyway, I don’t know why I’m replying to you as clearly the hospitality industry can do no wrong in your eyes and the customer is clearly always wrong

To add to my previous post, I feel that the industry and customers need to work together and I don’t think that either side spreading misinformation (the government does enough of that!) or refusing to give and take in line with the law is the way forward.

Haha! Coincidentally I've just received a text on my ancient iPhone requesting that I download the app. Almost as if someone knows I've been discussing the matter on here. Spooky!
Shame I can't.

I’m really concerned that I’m going to be turned away for not having the app on my phone because my phone is too old. I’d love to get a newer model but money is very tight at the moment 😞

we are all in this together, no exceptions and no excuses

Passengers in chauffeur driven cars dont have to wear masks.

House of Commons bar doesnt close at 10pm.

@Riceandpoppadoms

My DC's sports club says I have to scan my own app when the DC enter the building.

Firstly this seems misuse of the app - surely we shouldn't be using it by proxy for our DC.

Secondly, a sports centre with lots of separate facilities could give a positive alert for someone in the gym that will affect everyone in the building, from those playing badminton in the sports hall to those in the swimming pool. Then no-one can scan again for 2 weeks for no reason.

Thirdly, the parents aren't even allowed in the building. How does it work if I scan to let DC into the building, then go and sit in the car 100 metres away? Plus then I am sitting in the car for 1 hour. What about the parent sitting in their car next door - if they get a positive test do I get told to isolate even though we have been sitting in separate sealed cars?

The sports club clearly has no idea how the app works. The app works by sensing via bluetooth, when the phone is near to someone who tests positive for Covid. If your phone is not with your kids, then it's not going to know if they are. Only if you are.

Also a positive alert won't affect everyone in the building. Only those that you've been close enough to to have caught the virus from them. This is why the app is MUCH better than simply giving your name and number to the sports centre. The old method has no way of discriminating between someone who's been a metre away from the person for half an hour, and the person in another room entirely. The app does.

@HeIenaDove

we are all in this together, no exceptions and no excuses

Passengers in chauffeur driven cars dont have to wear masks.

House of Commons bar doesnt close at 10pm.

Passengers don't have to wear masks if there's a full panel between the driver and the rear seats.

The House of Commons bar is shutting at 10 like every other bar.

You do in London cabs even with a full screen. Seems odd to me but that’s what they are saying.

Suits me to only go to places that you have to use app and leave details. I want to know if I've been in contact with some one who has it, that's the whole point

Is it the app?

Everywhere I’ve been recently has a QR code displayed. Scan it with your camera on the way in, job done.

afaik the QR code is a requirement, the app is not.

orld?
Then I hear take your own pen but your touching the paper so it's all abit germophobic

I live in a HA flat. When we have someone round to do a repair we have to hand them a parking permit so they can park in the car park. When they have finished they have to hand the permit back to us. HA rules.

TBH all this just makes me think that I cannot be bothered with going out to a pub or restaurant right now. I am not downloading the app because it is not compatible with my phone and even if it was I have zero confidence in its accuracy. I do not want to have my life thrown into chaos by an app promoted by a government that has failed at just about everything so far.

@NotAKaren

TBH all this just makes me think that I cannot be bothered with going out to a pub or restaurant right now. I am not downloading the app because it is not compatible with my phone and even if it was I have zero confidence in its accuracy. I do not want to have my life thrown into chaos by an app promoted by a government that has failed at just about everything so far.

This.

i've downloaded it, and its actively scanning. I personally have no problem it being on my phone.

Can't (but would if I could) download it on my old iPhone 6 as it won't work and can't be downloaded. Not about to buy a new one any time soon so tough. If they want everyone to have this they should have thought of that.

@saraclara I agree, this is an incorrect use by the sports centre but they are now also saying that they won't accept a paper sign-in either even though I pointed out that there are not-old iphones that can't have the app. I didn't even get as far as pointing out that if I scan my child in then sit in the car for 1 hour the app won't trigger anything except if the person in the next car has coronavirus...