We were doing ok until we opened all the schools....

[Bbq1]

After lockdown was lifted pre September and pubs, restaurants etc were opened we seemed to have a handle on Covid with cases, hospital admissions and deaths all declining fairly steadily. Since we released millions of school aged children and thousands of teachers etc back into the classroom- boom, cases and consequently deaths, are now growing very rapidly again. It didn't take a rocket scientist to work out that this would happen. I work in a school and I have a 15 year old starting his gcse's so I 100% don't want the schools to close but surely there must be a more workable solution? Couldn't schools be one week, one week off for different bubbles or alternate days? Nobody wants schools to shut but surely in the long term if we don't get something safer in place and just continue sending kids and adults in day after day, then eventually they will close again?

I think the level of anger posters show to anyone who questions whether schools drive transmission is really odd.

I understand we all care about our kids.

I just think the current school arrangements are not good enough, for school children and for wider society.

I want something better than a squirt of antibac and fingers crossed.

I've kids at different stages, including one in exam year.

@notevenat20

Couldn't schools be one week, one week off for different bubbles or alternate days?

It would mostly be women who sacrificed their careers and independence if this happened. This would be a huge step backwards for feminism in the UK.

On this, trading off one wrong against another wrong never makes for good policy.

As a society we have no clear idea what we are trying to achieve.

I think the level of anger posters show to anyone who questions whether schools drive transmission is really odd.?

I think its really odd that you are saying anyone who doesn't agree with you is angry. We still don't know for definite if the cases are being brought into school or spread within school. I suspect its a mixture of both - but we don't have the data. Without data you can make assumptions but that is all it is.

I am actually quite a reasonable person you know.

I am worried about the virus and want us to be able to manage it whilst saving as many lives as possible. I don't want to do that however with schools shut for the next 6 months minimum.

I do not think blended learning is the way to go as too many students would fall further behind. Note I do not say all.

Part time would be preferable to me over blended but the consequences for many families who would lose their incomes is too much to dismiss.

I want better testing and tracking and tracing.

I think masks should be made compulsory in secondary schools, perhaps primary schools too.

I think all families have a duty to follow guidelines.

I would not send a sick child to school and I would properly isolate of required too.

I would prefer if families were not penalised for removing children.

I would lose my school place if I thought my children would kill me or someone else.

But i have been called angry - erm can't see that although I accept that I think some posts are uncalled for (on both sides of the argument)

Prejudiced - show me where?

We have poster trying to use emotional blackmail and say how would your kids feel if they killed their teacher.

Yet its the ones who mention the long term impact on their children who are hysterical?

You will probably find you and I are not too far apart in our thoughts.

I am not Us for Them. Yet that is something else that I have probably been accused of!

I am getting really annoyed at these posts and will try and stay away from them. But the post earlier this morning which I just happened to spot really annoyed me as it was completely unfair and uncalled for.

But no I can assure you, I am not heartless and I am not hysterical. I am angry, but that anger is at government.

I do expect people however to have some data before they start posts like this - which if we go back to actual OP - schools are not reason for situation we are in, although I accept they are now contributing to it on certain areas.

Why would I have been banned?

What have I said ever that would have caused me to be banned. Please tell me?

#MNHQ perhaps you can respond to this ridiculous accusation.

We have poster trying to use emotional blackmail and say how would your kids feel if they killed their teacher.

Nope. I discussed an actual instance of a teacher dying - a fact - and that my DC was very distressed by this. Actually was very upset..

The teachers are actually at significant risk of getting ill and a number are clinically vulnerable, also a fact.

It's not emotional blackmail. It is the reality of what happens in a pandemic and the reality of how English schools have been sent back. People on the continent cannot believe we are doing it like this.

@Timeforanotherusername

Why would I have been banned?

What have I said ever that would have caused me to be banned. Please tell me?

#MNHQ perhaps you can respond to this ridiculous accusation.

You username suggested you have changed your username? For some reason? Someone might do that if they had been banned, though they wouldn't usually advertise that they were a sockpuppet.

@Helloitsmemargaret

"People who go on about sacrificing children"

I'm speechless.

I would love kids to not be devastated by the death of a teacher.
I would love vulnerable kids to not be in an unsafe environment at home.
I would love kids to not be witnessing domestic abuse without the safety net of school.
I would love kids to not be hospitalised with malnutrition because they don't at least have school meals.
I would love kids to be able to play because that's how they make sense of this world.

To be made to feel wrong for caring about all these things is too much. At a time when it is all too much.

I guess we all care about these things. That is human.

There is a political agenda however, whereby the government has wanted schools back at all costs (in substantial part so the parents go to work) and without bothering to put in place very much to make them safer).

The losers in this will be our children, whose schools are vulnerable to closure of bubbles, year groups and whole schools because of infection.

There are potential long term risks of covid to the children and potential risks to vulnerable families and to the teachers. This is all potentially very upsetting for everyone.

We really need to look at ways to make the situation safer.

We all want the children to do well educationally and emotionally and this situation is not conducive to that.

here I'm out.

You are making it personal and quite frankly I can't be arsed with that.

Ultimately you / I really have no say.

You keep doing what you are doing for your child.

And I will keep doing what I think best for my DC.

To imply that we dont know that 8 cases in 1 school have transmitted in school is frankly ridiculous. Yes i have heard of one situation that it was likely outside but the likelihood even in a high area is going to be that it spread in school. I mean 222 outbreaks that were linked ie not brought in from elsewhere.

I think university outbreaks by their size and number of students from around the country would be likely that the 87 or whatever as few may have been infected before they arrived. But if theyve all been to say the same party.
You literally cannot deny science. Hands face space. So how does thst fit with schools the measures chosen instead dont work.
So admit it is that you choose to sacrifice the teachers and parents etc for children's education that could be done at home and looks like at least 10%+ want to do at home.

Scotland and wales are not fining...

It really is none of the gov or other people's business if people choose to keep non vulnerable (ie social service intervention) children home.
The lack of proper teaching at home is a huge issue anyway as many kids will be off for weeks when ill as no access to tests.
Oak + some proper worksheets might have worked but kids cant spend all day passively watching

I think its really odd that you are saying anyone who doesn't agree with you is angry.

I didn't say anyone who disagrees with me, I said when anyone suggests schools might drive transmission.

Immediately when the likelihood of viral transmission in school is raised, very emotive posts about 'shutting schools' and 'sacrificing children' follow.

The virus spreads in indoor environments where people do not observe social distancing, including schools.

What we do about that is worthy of discussion, imo, as the whole of society will benefit it spread is reduced.

My children need an education and a functioning society and an economy. So suppressing transmission is in their interests as much as mine or my parents.

I'm speechless.

Apparently so, Margaret, because you didn’t answer the question. Would you be happy for children (in particular secondary children) to be required to wear masks in the classroom and corridors in order to reduce the risk of transmission and make schools safer?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/27/britain-failure-covid-surge-disaster-test-trace-virus

Great article from Harvard professor - quotes below but would recommend reading the whole thing.

"In the global league table of incompetent pandemic management, the UK is doing something highly unusual. Its school year is starting with minimal infection control."

"it has lost control of its testing system during the most crucial moment since the initial surge of coronavirus cases, when greater demand for testing could have been easily foreseen. This is a disaster: England has been effectively blinded to where and how the virus is spreading."

"Ministers had months to prepare for the inevitable rise in cases that would accompany reopening schools, and to ensure the testing and tracing system was up to scratch. Although children are very unlikely to suffer serious illness as a result of infection, they can still transmit the virus to others."

For me this is the most upsetting bit - why are our children so unworthy compared to the children in MA, USA?

"I can tell you about what has been happening in my local school district. At present, all classes are conducted online. When schools open in a few weeks, twice-weekly testing will be available for teachers and staff in schools who request it. Masks will be worn by all students, teachers and staff, and those students who want remote learning will be able to get it, resulting in fewer kids in each “bubble”."

"And in Massachusetts, my home state, we’re currently running more than 17,000 tests a day with a positivity rate of less than 1% and rates of community transmission that, while not as low as we might like, remain stable"

Gosh, that article is brutal and sadly all true

The return to schools as normal was all built on the myth that children cannot catch/transmit the virus.
That's it.
The approach has been let's cross our fingers and hope for the best.
The government never cared about safety, just about fulfilling the pledge to open as normal.

@NebularNerd

The return to schools as normal was all built on the myth that children cannot catch/transmit the virus. That's it. The approach has been let's cross our fingers and hope for the best. The government never cared about safety, just about fulfilling the pledge to open as normal.

This in unfortunately true. Schools are not covid secure. 'Covid secure' is another stupid made up buzz phrase. I am sure nobody wants the schools to close but we need proper mitigation along with fully working and reliable test, track and trace. I am terrified that they will reduce mitigation under the lie that children do not catch or transmit. Schools are now the epicentre of infections.

@IloveJKRowling

The final sentence of that article seem particularly apt:

"In the spring I despaired that the UK was not learning the lessons of its neighbours. Now it is not even learning the lessons from itself."

@Foobydoo

The figure for schools had nearly doubled from the week before, most people could see that as an issue. Perhaps the government need another huge rise before taking a look at the situation.

@noblegiraffe I would like everything else possible to be done before we ask children to.do that.

So should children wear masks all day so adults can be in the pub at 9.30? No I wouldn't be happy with that.

Will the government keep sticking their fingers in their ears over schools or trot out “the science has changed” line and install social distancing before they have to close altogether. I have no idea.

@Helloitsmemargaret
Measures need to be taken where the infections are occurring. Aside from the losses to jobs and the economic impact, closing pubs would make little difference as the statistics have pubs, cafes and restaurants combined responsible for 3% of clusters. 44% are occurring in schools. For the record I’ve not stepped foot in a pub since June 30th 2007 but was negatively impacted by school closures and would be again.

I would like everything else possible to be done before we ask children to.do that.

Yep, thought so, Margaret. Your use of language is textbook.

You do get that other people might not be happy with putting themselves at extra risk just so your kids don't have to wear a mask, right?

[quote Helloitsmemargaret]@noblegiraffe I would like everything else possible to be done before we ask children to.do that.

So should children wear masks all day so adults can be in the pub at 9.30? No I wouldn't be happy with that.[/quote]
I'd want to do everything possible - I'm happy for my kids to wear a mask.

I wish they would separate schools and universities in the statistics. I think it is deliberately unclear to put them together.

Government is pinning all the blame on universities. We should really have facts.

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