We have a right to education, a right to personal liberty, a right to family time, or we did before Covid.

[Treesofwood]

But not any more. So how do we decide when some people's rights (including right to life) mean that others lose their rights. There have always been people who could get very sick and even die if they were to catch anyone of a number of viruses that circulate every year. No one suggested everyone should give up their right to personal liberty to prevent that. There have always been people who are killed on the roads every year. No one suggested that non essential car journeys should be banned to reduce or prevent this. Why are people with cancer's lives seen as less worth saving than those who might catch Covid? Why are people OK with this? How can the government make it illegal for me to see my parents?

If COVID mostly kills the over 80s with dementia in the uk why did so many nhs and care staff die? What about the mortality amongst security staff and taxi drivers, were they over 80 too? And why were there so many 50 somethings in intensive care?

I screenshotted it.
I'm not going to post it because etiquette is that you don't quote a deleted post. You didn't mention statistics about Covid.

@Porcupineinwaiting

If COVID mostly kills the over 80s with dementia in the uk why did so many nhs and care staff die? What about the mortality amongst security staff and taxi drivers, were they over 80 too? And why were there so many 50 somethings in intensive care?

I don't understand what you mean? It also killed other people in different demographic groups but by far the highest group is the over 80s. The most common underlying condition is dementia. I think the highest underlying condition for hospital deaths was diabetes but I can't remember for sure. It's very very clearly overwhelmingly a risk for the elderly and very elderly

@TheSeedsOfADream

I screenshotted it. I'm not going to post it because etiquette is that you don't quote a deleted post. You didn't mention statistics about Covid.

Did you really?

Funny you didn't post about it

Send it me if you want. I don't have a deletion message and I can't remember. I doubt I said I wanted a holocaust of the elderly and demented

Now you know who pressed the report button... But not why 🤷🏻‍♀️

The mystery deepens

I probably pissed her off on another thread

Funnily enough, I didn't post because I didn't want to engage with someone who says the kind of things you do PI.
And her other posts following the deletion are a bit "protest too much". Methinks.

I read it and expected to be deleted. It wasn't a fact based post, it was an opinion regarding the value protecting certain lives. No mystery deletion.
You are dissembling.

I don't know if I want to engage much with people who post in faux Shakespeare either, but, you know, I am tolerant

Happily we have a screenshot. I eagerly await (though I am now offline for a few hours so you'll have to wait for my reply)
Don't worry, I think they can moderate the inboxes as well in case you are worried I send you a rude reply in the style of Jane Austen or something
Of course, a message from mn about the post might be helpful too
I'm sure it was just awful. I probably wished an early death upon all manner of people

Let's try again. Apparently it was 'against the spirit of the site'. So, with a small twist.

I'd rather not give up my own, and my children's future, including jobs and access to healthcare, when you consider (and no this wasn't my original thought but let's replace it with ...) the overall death rate of covid

How repugnant of me.

And let's consider the overall deathrate of covid. Perhaps in simple graph form. I wonder if anyone can see a pattern?

Interestingly, the death rate from June to August has been the lowest in years. It's almost like the theory that covid simply hastened the death rate of many of those who are extremely frail by a few months is true. No doubt the fact that the age group by far most likely to succumb to covid is 80+ is pure coincidence as we all know that they might live another forty healthy years ...
Unless of course they are in a care home ...

The 'typical' care home resident is a mid 80s woman with a life expectancy of 12-30 months (pre-covid)

40%+ deaths of covid were in care homes in the UK

I wonder if any of these facts are against the spirit of the talk guidelines?

If only you were a virologist Premier. Then your grasp of the facts would be less shaky.

How about you chat a bit about the 60% of deaths of people not in care homes. Off you go.

Sadly up to 70% of people in care homes have dementia

Over 20% of those who died of covid in the UK had dementia

Over 40% of those in care homes who died had dementia

Now .. in fact .. I would much rather we tried our best to extend the short lifespans of those people with dementia in carehomes, bearing in mind the average lifespan on entry to a carehome is 12-30 months at the best of times, and dementia is linked to lower life expectancies

We could have done that, and still could, by providing higher quality care and ppe, regular testing of staff and residents, better training of staff

But ... do I want to destroy the economy through these pointless lockdowns, inflicting a generational 'great depression' and ruining my children's economic future and future healthcare of their own?

Actually, no I don't

How disgusting of me

@Porcupineinwaiting

If only you were a virologist Premier. Then your grasp of the facts would be less shaky.

How about you chat a bit about the 60% of deaths of people not in care homes. Off you go.

They are not the people I referred to in my banned post. We can look at them separately if you want? Starting with age (see helpful graph with different colours)

Any idea what the average lifespan is in the UK?

Anyway I am relieved to see I didn't call for the stoning to death of those with an asthmatic cough or anything else appalling

You might well feel it is appalling of me to not wish to sacrifice my own and my children's job, house, health, for a disease that primarily affects those at the end of long lives, where the highest underlying condition is dementia. I actually sort of admire you for that if you are willing to look a future of long term poverty, unemployment and reduced life expectancy for your own children in the face and not flinch. It is very noble. Well done.

(There's also research into a genetic link to genes causing dementia so it could be, for example, that those younger who are more susceptible to covid have that gene)

It's also (some even say, primarily) a vascular disease. Surely your 'research' brought up that? People with undiagnosed heart disease, people on statins, people with diabetes 2, etc, are often at increased risk of vascular dementia, for starters; and middle-aged people with these disease risks are also turning up with more severe forms of Covid, and others even younger are simply dying due to Covid-related strokes or being left with damaged hearts, etc.

Genes, by the way, account for only a small percentage of dementias; mostly it is lifestyle related; and even with genetic markers that increase risk, lifestyle changes mean one doesn't necessarily develop dementia, or that one develops a less aggressive progression.

How disgusting of me

Yes. Go read the NHS thread and grow your tiny black heart into something resembling the start of a human's, would be my recommendation.

We didn't have a written constitution or a bill of rights last time I checked. Am I missing something?

you don't hear of the NHS frontline staff saying they 'have the right' to stay safe and not go in to work because they may get sick

You do actually - at my local surgery.

@everythingisginandroses Are you kidding?

One thing I do know is that supporting a relative with dementia in a care home now would be more heartbreaking than ever before. And not because of the increased risk of a slightly earlier death.

@peasoup8 Mine too. If the could chain the gates of the car park shut and examine people through cameras in the road they absolutely would.

I wonder if DC et al pays people to come onto mumsnet to represent a view.

@PremierInn Is there a comparison of that graph with the overall all cause death rate in the UK?