Hospitalisations and Intensive Care Figures are rising.

[Nellodee]

People keep saying that although cases are rising, hospitalisations remain low. I don't believe this is true. We need to stop pretending that we can do nothing and everything will turn out fine. Oh, and I'm not being a doom monger, I am sounding the fire alarm. I fucking can't wait to be wrong.

This is from the Guardian:

The daily total for Covid patients being admitted to hospital in England has now passed 150. On 13 September, the most recent day for which a figure is available, it was 153. The previous day it was 143. Only a week ago the numbers were in double figures. The total has not been as high as 150 since early July.

The total number of coronavirus patients in hospital in England has now reached 866. That is the figure for 15 September, up from 782 the previous day. It has not been as high as this since late July.

The number of hospital patients in England receiving mechanical ventilation has now passed 100 again. Today’s figure is 101. It has not been this high since late July.

@gypsywater

"Home Guard"

🤣🤣🤣

@Sostenueto

I have a suspicion that Covid tests are being withheld purposely because government don't want real figures of positives tests to be known for the sake of the economy.

How does having loads of people off work isolating help the economy? How does people isolating and not out being economically active because they can't get a test help the economy? How does people having to take time off work to provide childcare because their kids can't get them help the economy?

"Sostenueto

I have a suspicion that Covid tests are being withheld purposely because government don't want real figures of positives tests to be known for the sake of the economy"

Well you could put the problems down to some devilish Machiavellian plan by eye test Cummings. The simpler and more likely explanation is lack of competence

OP and others you’re clearly loving all this and I can’t quite fathom why.

@Sostenueto

I have a suspicion that Covid tests are being withheld purposely because government don't want real figures of positives tests to be known for the sake of the economy.

Nope. As Nellodee says, you are giving them too much credit.

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.

All NHS staff to be put on ‘emergency contracts’ for 6 months- these would allow them to be relocated anywhere in the U.K. with 48 hours’ notice. This would allow us to respond to local flare-ups as they happen.

WTAF?! Who would agree to being sent anywhere with 48 hours notice?! How will this affect their current work? Families? Childcare commitments?

Meanwhile in the real world I think this 'home guard' idea is safely in the realms of fantasy.

It can only work if its voluntary. What are they going to do sack everyone who refuses to comply because they dont want to / have responsibilities that prevent them for doing this?

There isnt a strategy in place to enable such a scheme in practical terms so it will fall flat on its face immediately as its not tenable.

"OP and others you’re clearly loving all this "

No one is "loving it". The virus is spreading as we have been warned it would by Chris whitty Matt Hancock etc and it is doing much faster than it needs to because lots of people do their own risk assessments and decide

The virus is mutated to a safer form.
The UK is now east Germany.
If you follow the guidance your a sheeple
Deaths arent rising so this is all unneccessary
More people are dying from being run over/ suicide/ choking on a lollipop etc.
Effects on mental health will do more damage long term etc

This just makes things worse for all of us.

Blended learning is not a thing being offered. What was being offered was part time school.Which I was OK with as our plans were actually very good but some were plainly unacceptable, yet all that some schools could offer. Exam years kids in 4 days every 3 weeks for example.

Children and young people deserve better than this and Zoom University for the sake of a virus that is largely killing their grandparents’ generation. Sad as that is it’s not worth sacrificing the life chances of the young for. Who those of us in middle age will need to pay our pensions and look after us when the time comes.

I can’t get worked up about rising cases and hospitalisations because I can’t do anything about it other than what I’ve done since this began and follow all the rules and keep myself away from other people as much as I can. Obviously I don’t want people to get ill and die but some will sadly no matter what we do. The things the OP suggests as solutions are just going to cause more problems and probably not even reduce deaths that much, as they will happen anyway when we open things up as we have to.

I don’t agree @walksen. There are several posters just thriving on the drama

Agree entirely MadameBlobby.

I am more worried about the long term effects from 'mild' covid than the death rate. As a middle aged woman the chances of me dying from it are miniscule however the chances of debilitating long term effect such as chronic fatigue are pretty significant and substantially higher than for other illnesses such as the flu.

Yes we could have kept everything open to support the economy however as cases started to rise people would have been too afraid to go out and spend anyway. This is why Sweden still took a substantial economic hit.

I do think though that other treatments such as cancer should have been continued to have been provided throughout lockdown. If we had not have locked down these would have been no better off becuase hospitals would have been so overwhelmed they couldn't have provided them anyway.

@MadameBlobby

Blended learning is not a thing being offered. What was being offered was part time school.Which I was OK with as our plans were actually very good but some were plainly unacceptable, yet all that some schools could offer. Exam years kids in 4 days every 3 weeks for example.

Children and young people deserve better than this and Zoom University for the sake of a virus that is largely killing their grandparents’ generation. Sad as that is it’s not worth sacrificing the life chances of the young for. Who those of us in middle age will need to pay our pensions and look after us when the time comes.

I can’t get worked up about rising cases and hospitalisations because I can’t do anything about it other than what I’ve done since this began and follow all the rules and keep myself away from other people as much as I can. Obviously I don’t want people to get ill and die but some will sadly no matter what we do. The things the OP suggests as solutions are just going to cause more problems and probably not even reduce deaths that much, as they will happen anyway when we open things up as we have to.

Everyone is suffering in one way or another and that stinks BUT I'm concerned about people who seem to think that it is only a small number of very elderly or vulnerable people that are in danger from Covid Yes of course children and young people are suffering but they also suffer if their dad with a type 1 diabetes or a very well managed heart condition dies, or their mum gets long Covid and is ill for months and months. To get to anything like a herd immunity, this would involve a massive number of excess deaths ( and not just of the extremely vulnerable) which would impact many many people. That would also include those who die of other things because the NHS is dealing with Covid. This also would have massive impacts on mental health and the economy. It stinks either way, but I know which stink I "prefer'

I’m vulnerable myself, still doesn’t mean I think the world should stop to prevent me getting ill/dying of Covid. Deaths at all are of course sad but the price to wider society needs to be looked at too.

Unless we get a vaccine or effective treatment rolled out quickly I think every country is going to end up with the same deaths they would have done regardless of measures. It’s just how spread out they are. The only benefit to continued lockdown or trashing kids and young people’s education is buying time.

But I think the price to wider society would be far greater than what we are paying right now.
Of course I think the government has made a mess of so much and we could be in a much better place now than we are with no greater risks.

I'd disagree with your estimates of deaths.

@walksen

"OP and others you’re clearly loving all this "

No one is "loving it". The virus is spreading as we have been warned it would by Chris whitty Matt Hancock etc and it is doing much faster than it needs to because lots of people do their own risk assessments and decide

The virus is mutated to a safer form.
The UK is now east Germany.
If you follow the guidance your a sheeple
Deaths arent rising so this is all unneccessary
More people are dying from being run over/ suicide/ choking on a lollipop etc.
Effects on mental health will do more damage long term etc

This just makes things worse for all of us.

I agree. It’s like being back in February with regards to denial.

People can’t risk assess this for just themselves as there actions impact on others when they go into work or send their children to school.

The rule of six won’t be enough as too many have said they won’t comply and many think there doesn’t have to be SD within the six regardless of different households.

.

I dont think there is any denial on this thread really so I find it really annoying when people say 'its like we're back in Feb/March' in a very condescending way.

Its just that there are different approaches we could take - some want everything to shut down to suppress the virus for a limited period again, others want to let it circulate (with restrictions in place) to get to herd immunity. Those wanting the latter arent denying the existence of the virus, just recognise that its not going anywhere. The former are hedging their bets on a vaccine being mass rolled out sooner rather than later. I truly hope the vaccine does come soon, but as time goes on and the less we hear about it, the less confident I feel that it will come and be available to us any time soon.

@EducatingArti

But I think the price to wider society would be far greater than what we are paying right now. Of course I think the government has made a mess of so much and we could be in a much better place now than we are with no greater risks.

I don’t agree, plus the current method is going to cause a backlash of anger from the young and who can blame them. You’re also supposing I am thinking we should go back to normal with no restrictions. I don’t. But equally blended learning and Zoom University cannot be allowed to be the answers.

I do think though that other treatments such as cancer should have been continued to have been provided throughout lockdown. If we had not have locked down these would have been no better off becuase hospitals would have been so overwhelmed they couldn't have provided them anyway

@weepingwillow22 agreed. A bit of creative, compassionate thinking would have been useful, as opposed to women having to fight for early scans in empty hospitals due to bleeding, having to go to scans alone and be told they had lost their babies, no D&C allowed because no general anaesthetic allowed so sent home with pessaries to pass their pregnancy in pain over a number of days or even weeks. And cancer treatments delayed.

I don’t even want to let the virus circulate to get to herd immunity. I just don’t see how continued lockdowns will do anything other than fuck the economy even more, fuck our kids education, fuck the NHS (except Covid wards) and just delay the deaths that will happen anyway when we open up as we can’t stay closed forever

@AgentCooper

I do think though that other treatments such as cancer should have been continued to have been provided throughout lockdown. If we had not have locked down these would have been no better off becuase hospitals would have been so overwhelmed they couldn't have provided them anyway

@weepingwillow22 agreed. A bit of creative, compassionate thinking would have been useful, as opposed to women having to fight for early scans in empty hospitals due to bleeding, having to go to scans alone and be told they had lost their babies, no D&C allowed because no general anaesthetic allowed so sent home with pessaries to pass their pregnancy in pain over a number of days or even weeks. And cancer treatments delayed.

And to add, in empty hospitals. The NHS Louisa Jordan in Glasgow could have been Covid only and still wouldn’t have filled up.

But the result of what you are proposing is that the virus will circulate until herd immunity or effective vaccine.

It is not children's responsibility to keep adults safe at great harm to them. The gap in educational achievement between the rich and the poor widened 48% in lockdown. The children already most disadvantaged are as usual the ones thrown under the bus in order to protect others. Where's their protection?

But the result of what you are proposing is that the virus will circulate until herd immunity or effective vaccine.
Well yes. Its a pandemic virus we have no immunity to, because its new. There is no way to get rid of it now.
What were you thinking should happen?