How can you do this to your children (and yourselves)?

[endoftheworldaoife]

It has been six months and it's now very clear that covid won't be doing away in our lifetimes. A vaccine won't eradicate it (just as a vaccine didn't eradicate flu).

Most of you seem to be willing to accept social distancing and masks for the foreseeable. And I don't get it. We are a tribal species. We literally die without contact and get sick without communication. Kids are learning arrange, stilted ways of being that will just worsen their digital reliance. OCD is being normalised. Dating will be neurotic and masked. Freshers won't make new loves or lifelong friends like we did. As for their working lives...

I wouldn't mind catching covid (indeed I'm sure we all will sooner or later) so can someone explain to me what on earth is happening in their heads to tip the balance? If it only affected us, I could understand (well, I couldn't but this feels like child abuse on a giant scale).

people don't realise that this is forever. There will never be a point in the rest of our lives when covid isn't killing people. Just as flu kills people now.

If we get to a point where covid kills people in the way seasonal flu usually does, then we won't have a problem to the extent that most people would notice. Why do you think we haven't been doing this for flu? We don't need to get to a point where covid kills no one, we need to get to a point where exponential growth isn't going to shut down all these norms you want to protect faster than lockdown.

You won't be able to get through a natural peak while doing all these things you want to do. Get real.

It won't help children if their parents are catastrophising. You might think your attitude is hidden when needed, but I expect it comes through indirectly.

It won't help children if their parents are catastrophising. You might think your attitude is hidden when needed, but I expect it comes through indirectly.

Yes agree with this. Try to calm a bit and read science, which might help. It has helped here.

It’s been six months not six years! If you don’t follow the regulations the country will be put in lockdown again - possibly a tighter one than earlier this year. Wearing a mask for limited circumstances and maintaining social distancing isn’t hard. Don’t be so selfish!

Op if you're that concerned about the 6 months of disruption that young people have endured, then surely you can see that by abiding by the rules now and minimising any non essential contact with others prevents any further disruption such as school closures, workplace closures with people in jobs that are continuously having to self isolate with no sick pay. I don't understand all of the "we can't stay locked up forever" comments. We are not locked up and we can see people, we can go to the shop and children can go to school. Have some discipline, respect and empathy towards your fellow humans. This is a collective effort, there are many mental health charities out there that welcome volunteers. Perhaps you could look into volunteering a few hours a week to help this collective effort.

where is the evidence that it won't be gone in our lifetime? Can you show me the link to this scientific information

One thing that is being overlooked in the discussion, I feel, is how terribly the pandemic has been managed.
If (and it is an if) it had been possible to completely shut down everything and everywhere people mingles for a month - there would have been minimal opportunities for the virus to spread.
But the measures in place appear to have next to nothing to do with preventing spread or minimising risks and almost everything to do with keeping the economy going. And much of what constitutes keeping the economy going seems to depend on people borrowing money or in buying things they don't really need - suggesting a flaw in how the economy operates.
I agree that people with impaired health are at the highest risk, but not everyone with impaired health is old. The child at school with motor neurone disease, the child with severe asthma, the young parent with a heart problem; they haven't lived their lives.

[quote Artesia]@endoftheworldaoife

So what should happen to families with vulnerable members? They should be told to crack on and Covid be damned? It’s not going away, so either they take a level of responsibility or they shrug and say “what will be will be”. If it’s someone you love, would you not want to do what you could to prevent them dying?[/quote]
They should do what they would normally do during a normal flu season ....

OP don’t you believe that the NHS could be overwhelmed if there are too many cases?

@IncludeWomenInTheSequel

I came off MN in early March due to the generalised hysteria, and I can see it's getting close to time to do the same again.

The hysteria everywhere is cranking up, not just on here.

The hysteria baffled me at the start of this whole shit show and it still does.

@endoftheworldaoife

Artesia - if I got covid and died I would consider it part of the way the world works. I think we all need to get real about how much we can demand from others. I also think quality of life is more important. You think people locked in the carehomes are happy to be ekeing out those moments? I'm sure views vary but I'd rather have visitors.

The more I read your comments the more I am face palming at your total disregard for vulnerable people in our community. -People in care homes would rather die than be 'locked up'? -It's like war?

• you'd rather die (but I bet you're not even vulnerable!)

-Removing what it is the be human?

It is social distancing rules and limiting spread of a worldwide pandemic of a virus that disproportionately kills or causes serious harm to peoples health. Did you even see what occurred in Italian hospitals?? the life and death choices medics had to make in who they had equipment and space to treat and who to
Leave to die a horrible death as they were overwhelmed? That was impact of a pandemic which could have writ large across other nations. Those governments said not on their watch, they can't all have been wrong. All of that was avoided or reduced because of measures that were taken to reduce or slow down spread

No one stopped people from going out for walks and video chatting
Contacting their friends and family, just not spreading the virus by behaviour that was known to spread it

It's not just older frail people who were extremely vulnerable and on shielding list, plenty of 'usually active' adults and children who happen to have underlying serious ill health issues they live well with. Disabled children and disabled adults exist you know, as well as older people, who also enjoy our lives! You've made us invisible and expendable in your rants about poor you and your healthy family .

Luckily the majority of societies & communities have listened, acting with kindness and empathy for the benefit of everyone. It wasn't prison, it was limiting infection spread. Children have gone back to school- some went back in June including vulnerable children and key workers children earlier if needed, who were offered safer places because of reduced crowds in school. There were free food parcels. Volunteers and helplines everywhere, internet providers doubling data, society did a lot that you have ignored in your catastrophising.

It has been a tough 6 months and at a cost but a far lesser cost than simply saying 'let them die'. You sounds like the Maria Antoinette of Covid in your self centred view- meh who cares eh? Luckily most parents and people do care about others

Cases in London are going up- I agree with that- cases everywhere will go up given the lift of restrictions. But for such a densely populated city, compared to other parts of England London is “low”- so there have been Suggestions because it ran riot there at the beginning there is now some immunity. I was never saying London is covid free.

It’s a few months - maybe a year by the time is is all over - of making a few compromises. It’s not the end of the world. Previous generations of children and young people have endured far greater hardships than a few restrictions on their social activity. (And in societies around the world today young people are suffering enormously through wars, famines, oppressive regimes). Of course this situation difficult for lots of people, and it is far harder for some than others. But it won’t last forever.

At the moment it feels strange and excessive when we look around and see no real signs that we’re living through a potentially catastrophic pandemic. But as autumn advances into winter the risks increase and I don’t think anybody knows what is going to happen. So a few months of extra caution doesn’t seem like too much to ask.

As the biggest rise in cases are among young people I'd argue that they weren't bothering to restrict their lives anyway. My sons friends have been meeting up in parks and the beach for ages (and yes he has too).

Maybe it's the young people who are being bloody selfish who should abide by the rules so we can all get back to normal sooner (yes my son too).

In general though most of the young people I've met and spoken too have been more sensible and less entitled than their parents and definitely more concerned about the older generation - their beloved grandparents or great grandparents- dying before their time.

@everythingthelighttouches

OP don’t you believe that the NHS could be overwhelmed if there are too many cases?

But it hasn’t at any point been overwhelmed.

Taking out the inflated number of legacy patients continually referred to by the Scottish Govermnet for example there are around 40 people in hospital with a positive Covid test in the last 28 days. That doesn’t mean they are in hospital because of Covid or being treated for Covid.

8 in ITU in the WHOLE of Scotland.

No one is overwhelmed.

Not the hospitals, the GPs or the funeral directors.

This thread makes me despair. I'm totally in agreement with @lindy2.
Yeah things are a pain but it's not like we are living with being bombed every night. It's keeping your distance, wearing a mask, washing your hands and missing out on a few things. I am happy to do all this, for as long as it takes, if it stops more people dying prematurely. Because it's not all about me. I won't have seen my family for a year best case scenario but that's just how it is.

@cretelover it’s a “pain” to be legally prevented from seeing your terminally ill (yes both of them) parents because of the post code you live in?

Yes, such a pain.

At least we’re not being bombed as you say

It is easy to see why China could deal with the virus much quicker than the US (or us) will do.

Whether this is a good or a bad thing, China has a culture where the community/family good is above the individual’s wants. While we live in one where the individual’s wants/wishes/dreams take priority.

That’s why we have not been as effective on fighting the virus, everyone is pulling the cart in the direction they please or find more convenient.

If we had focused on what is good for the community like some eastern and Nordic cultures are we would probably be doing much better than we are (and don’t start me on Sweden, that only worked because more people in Sweden live in single occupant dwellings than in most other countries).

We aren’t talking about forever just buying time. A vaccine won’t eradicate but it will change things enough to be able to go back to normal.

the truth of the matter, we have to live with epidemic diseases. Humanity has always had to live with them. We can't just run away

@cretelover heartening to hear. I do think a lot of the negativity is because our Government hasn’t communicated why we are doing what we’re doing. People see empty hospitals at present and wonder why restrictions are in place.

Poor communication hasn’t helped understanding and hence compliance.

In a normal flu season we would all be vaccinated - this is not flu.

I agree with everything you've said "end".

I've had my life - been to Uni, had a varied and fulfilling career, been married (and divorced - twice!), watched my children grow up. I'm going to die one day. Everyone is. Already I'm of an age where I'm sadly attending funerals of people my age. But I absolutely do not want or expect the younger generation to live a half life just so that I can cheat death for a few more years. What will I care once I'm dead? It's not like I'll know I'm dead?

And I think this is it forever now too. I don't think there will be an effective vaccine anytime soon. In fact there could well be another more deadly virus around the corner. It's not like this is the first is it?

I would love to be wrong of course. If, in a years time everything is completely back to normal, I will be more than happy to come out and apologise and admit I was wrong and paranoid.

If you wait a couple of years, there will be no jobs, no schools, no hospitals.

It's this catastrophising and hysterical mindset that is more likely to do damage than the bloody virus.

@cocopops in a normal flu season we would all be vaccinated - this is not flu.

"No one is overwhelmed.

Not the hospitals, the GPs or the funeral directors."

And the restrictions are aimed at keeping it that way.