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Covid

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How can you do this to your children (and yourselves)?

983 replies

endoftheworldaoife · 13/09/2020 09:06

It has been six months and it's now very clear that covid won't be doing away in our lifetimes. A vaccine won't eradicate it (just as a vaccine didn't eradicate flu).

Most of you seem to be willing to accept social distancing and masks for the foreseeable. And I don't get it. We are a tribal species. We literally die without contact and get sick without communication. Kids are learning arrange, stilted ways of being that will just worsen their digital reliance. OCD is being normalised. Dating will be neurotic and masked. Freshers won't make new loves or lifelong friends like we did. As for their working lives...

I wouldn't mind catching covid (indeed I'm sure we all will sooner or later) so can someone explain to me what on earth is happening in their heads to tip the balance? If it only affected us, I could understand (well, I couldn't but this feels like child abuse on a giant scale).

OP posts:
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IncludeWomenInTheSequel · 13/09/2020 14:07

And fuck the people who live either side and will also lose their homes if she gets bombed. They're just sheeple anyway.

Flyonawalk · 13/09/2020 14:09

OP, you perhaps know Benjamin Franklin’s quotation - ‘Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety’.

It is interesting that he knew difficult times come and go, but essential values of a society need to be defended if they are to survive.

Happytobeme123 · 13/09/2020 14:09

OP, I find it strange that you flippantly say you don't mind catching covid 19 because you're more concerned about your happiness.

5 months on and my life is very altered to what it was. I have spent today lying down (on a beautiful day) to try and ease muscle aches and headache. This is only after a week of full time working. This is reality for me now. I have no idea what goes on in my body when I feel unwell. I've accepted it might never be the same. Covid 19 isn't about getting better or dying. Some of us are suspended in between.

Be careful what you wish for...

Aridane · 13/09/2020 14:10

the truth of the matter, we have to live with epidemic diseases. Humanity has always had to live with them. We can't just run away

And with pandemics - whether Black Death or Spanish Flu - isolation and quarantine have been used to address and manage pandemic .

(wood ‘quarantine’ actually comes from Italian word origins action in 14th century plague times)

Dominicgoings · 13/09/2020 14:10

@RuffleCrow

These threads are so pointless. Lot of people just parroting what they've been told or making up what they reckon. None of us really know anything about covid 19 or the political manouvres surrounding it.
And the award for the most pointless post goes to.......
DisappearingGirl · 13/09/2020 14:11

I might agree with you OP if I thought we were going to have to do this for years on end. I also agree COVID is not going away. However I think it's worth taking some precautions in the short term (say, next 6-12 months) because:

  1. there may well be a vaccine in 2021 and I'd be really sad if my early-70s mostly healthy parents died of COVID this winter and then there was a vaccine next year, and

  2. with schools going back and students going back to shared accommodation I think it WILL go round and population immunity will increase, and the measures we're taking will just (hopefully) avoid the NHS being overwhelmed while that happens.

Theworldisfullofgs · 13/09/2020 14:12

You are selfish cold people, I think. To talk about accepting this for years.

And you're not?Hmm. You are on others on here are literally saying, that you are not prepared to do anything to safeguard others because you've blown up something inconvenient into life and death. Whereas Covid for some people actually is.

Maybe stop talking yourself into a frenzy and realise that taking a few preventative measures will be in the scale of a whole life time, a short term thing.

MitziK · 13/09/2020 14:15

@Happytobeme123

OP, I find it strange that you flippantly say you don't mind catching covid 19 because you're more concerned about your happiness.

5 months on and my life is very altered to what it was. I have spent today lying down (on a beautiful day) to try and ease muscle aches and headache. This is only after a week of full time working. This is reality for me now. I have no idea what goes on in my body when I feel unwell. I've accepted it might never be the same. Covid 19 isn't about getting better or dying. Some of us are suspended in between.

Be careful what you wish for...

I put the base sheet on our bed and replaced the duvet cover with help from DP last night. No lifting up of the mattress, as the sheet fits perfectly and just needed me to walk round making sure that the corners were straight, no shaking a thick duvet frantically on my own, just sitting down and holding two corners whilst he pulled the cover over and then drawing it up to the top of the bed. He changed the pillowcases.

I then drew the curtains and sat back down on the bed.

It took me 10 minutes to stop gasping for breath. And that's on the first week since March that I have been able to think 'I feel OK', as I also managed to load and unload the washing machine twice yesterday morning for the first time.

Charles11 · 13/09/2020 14:17

More than 620 nhs staff and social care workers died in the uk. I’m assuming these weren’t all frail and elderly people who had lived their lives and were happy to sacrifice their lives.
We are not being asked to do much to ensure this doesn’t continue. The virus is still here and if we forget about all the precautions we need to take - which is mostly some social distancing and mask wearing but generally, getting on with life - to insure these deaths don’t keep continuing.
The rates are low currently because of the measures we’re taking. If we stop, then we will likely see a rise in cases and deaths.
No one wants this. I’d love to start going back to the things that were normal in line and my children’s lives but we can’t.
It’s a temporary hardship.

Aridane · 13/09/2020 14:24

If infection and death rates were published every single day for all other illnesses, no one would ever leave the house

Except that diabetes, high blood pressure, cardio vascular disease, liver disease, asthma, cancer etc aren’t infectious diseases

diplodocusinermine · 13/09/2020 14:26

It's odd how many of these kind of threads are started by new users.

CrunchyNutNC · 13/09/2020 14:27

@diplodocusinermine

It's odd how many of these kind of threads are started by new users.
Anyone know any Russian?
everythingisginandroses · 13/09/2020 14:27

@Happytobeme123 - I hear you. I am almost 6 months down the line and I still have aches and pains - I am not so badly affected as you and many others on this board, but that is just luck. It was a vile illness for me, and I wasn't even that worried about it to start with (mid-40s, fit and healthy, hadn't had a day off sick in 5 years). I am just hoping that if I catch it again it will be milder next time Sad It's easy to be sanguine when you don't think you or your loved ones are likely to suffer much. I can't be doing with people getting hysterical about putting a piece of cloth over their (doubtless gorgeous) faces for a few minutes and having to show a bit of fucking consideration to other people, because they are soooo special and non-conformist. It's contrarian twattery.

everythingthelighttouches · 13/09/2020 14:28

endoftheworldaoife

“ I would tell people to wash their hands, wear a mask if they want, avoid crowded places if they want, withhold approval for large events for a few months, encourage working from home where possible.

And that's it.”

And if you’re scientists tell you this will not be sufficient to stop the virus from overcoming the NHS so that no one can get medical care for anything???

sunglassesonthetable · 13/09/2020 14:30

You are selfish cold people, I think. To talk about accepting this for years.

And you're a bundle of empathy and love for the vulnerable among us.

Bluelinings · 13/09/2020 14:31

It’s odd that those most against lockdown seem to engage in attitudes and behaviours that are most likely to stick us in another lockdown.

Each to their own I guess.

I respect your choices.

Try doing the same for others. You don’t know their story, health or background.

tiktokmakeaclock · 13/09/2020 14:32

It’s odd that those most against lockdown seem to engage in attitudes and behaviours that are most likely to stick us in another lockdown.

I often think this.

Parker231 · 13/09/2020 14:34

Exactly - less compliance now = more and longer restrictions.

IncludeWomenInTheSequel · 13/09/2020 14:34

@Bluelinings

It’s odd that those most against lockdown seem to engage in attitudes and behaviours that are most likely to stick us in another lockdown.

Each to their own I guess.

I respect your choices.

Try doing the same for others. You don’t know their story, health or background.

It is very odd isn't it! But I think there's a decent percentage of society now who are sort of proudly ill-educated and will stamp their feet loudly in order that they be allowed to stay that way.
tiktokmakeaclock · 13/09/2020 14:39

13:49LadyofTheManners

Never read a post I disagree with so thoroughly. Utterly mystifying hogwash throughout.

MagpieSong · 13/09/2020 14:40

A vaccine doesn't erradicate flu, no. It does really risk the chance of getting a serious case of flu though - which means we don't all have to social distance or isolate in the same way at that point. I don't think that many people do blithely accept. There is a huge difference in approaching something based on the knowledge you've got and blithely accepting. There's research you can do yourself (lots of studies have at least some information available to public).

As someone who has lived the experience of a family member with an attachment disorder and early trauma alongside personal experience of trauma, the lack of communication you're talking about OP is a very different reality. Most children have some contact with those outside families, definitely families and usually are at school. They have a loving attachment with a parent who responds to them and talks them through worries and a parent who is aware that this situation is not ideal, who can support them when there is a clearer plan in place. They are not likely to get ill from less friends round after school.

We are in very early days. It is not clear a vaccine won't eradicate it, just highly likely. It is clear the first vaccine won't eradicate it, but it will improve the safety of socialising and lower risk.

It is just lightyears away from abuse. It's actually quite offensive to make such a blase comment for those of us who have personal experience of abuse/neglect/trauma. Your child cries and you pick them up, you gave them the gift of making faces at them as a child so their facial muscles developed, you cuddle them and make sure they're fed and warm, you respond to their worries and comfort them. That is NOT abuse or neglect. Abuse causes children who stop crying, who suffer deep shame, who sometimes are so neglected their facial muscles don't develop normally, who can't control food intake as they don't believe they're going to be fed again and are set off into fight/flight mode from something as seemingly innocuous as Santa. Lack of real communication and a stable, single carer (parent or otherwise) in infancy/childhood causes attachment problems that are really hard to work through and prevent a child being able to accept love from another person, or even themselves. Please don't use the term abuse lightly.

Equally, most schools at Primary level are not encouraging teachers to wear masks (at least in my area) to aid the children continuing to learn speech more easily and be able to read facial expression. That is love, teachers putting themselves at risk of Covid so our children can learn that bit more easily and feel more at ease. That's something to be very grateful for.

Actually, as a thought (meant kindly), do you think you might be feeling a bit overly low? It's quite a big reaction to the Covid rules and maybe you're just feeling a bit too overwhelmed? Things are very likely to improve and, yes, it may take time, but we're all in the same boat. The foreseeable doesn't have to mean years and years. We aren't all terrified of Flu, we just go and get a jab if we're at risk or able to pay. That is likely to be how it is in the future, although it will take time to get there. We're very very early on, it's only been since March! I don't think BJ is helpful at all, as he keeps giving all these 'over by Christmas' comments, which most of us knew were utterly twallop. However, it doesn't mean the vaccine will be continuously ineffective or that research will stop once the first vaccine is produced.

Happytobeme123 · 13/09/2020 14:41

@MitziK I'm sorry to hear how ill you are. I was like that at the beginning of the school holidays. I was taken in an ambulance whilst being patronised and told I was having a panic attack. The truth was, it was severe asthma and I couldn't even get to the kitchen to get my inhaler (from room next door).
My husband has been my carer. I've been very fortunate to make it back to work. I'm hoping I don't have another bad relapse.
I really hope you start to regain strength. There's a good support group on here for the long haulers but I'm not sure if its still up. But I know (from what you've said) that even posting and reading can be tiring!

tiktokmakeaclock · 13/09/2020 14:41

OP you are startlingly cynical about the vaccine. Even the pessimistic scenario you outlined (where it reduces symptoms) would be a massive game changer. And you don't know the things you're claiming to know. It's also not the only vaccine.

Your hysteria and cynicism both need reining in.

MagpieSong · 13/09/2020 14:42

reduce the risk*

CoffeeandCroissant · 13/09/2020 14:42

@diplodocusinermine

It's odd how many of these kind of threads are started by new users.
And very swiftly followed by other new users (or at least people whose usernames I don't recognise as regular posters on the coranavirus section of Mumsnet) posting short posts like "I agree OP" or "well said OP" but who never return after that to engage with any of the counter arguments or post in any other threads. How do they find the OP's post so quickly? Almost as if it's coordinated?

Perhaps the odious Toby Young is directing people over to Mumsnet from his lockdown sceptics forum? Grin

Not actually saying that this is the case, obviously people have different opinions and that's fine, but the hyperbolic anti pandemic measures thread, swiftly followed by lots of people backing up the OP does seem to occur every few days on here and sometimes it's also based on the latest "evidence" or "theory" (either dubious or cherry picked) doing the rounds on #KBF Twitter...