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Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 18

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/09/2020 18:03

Welcome to thread 18 of the daily updates

Resource links:

Uk dashboard deaths, cases, hospitals, tests - 4 nations, English regions & LAs
Imperial UK weekly LAs, cases / 100k, table, map, hotspots
MSAO Map of English cases
Cases Tracker England Local Government
ONS MSAO Map English deaths
CovidMessenger live update by council district in England
Scot gov Daily data
Scotland TravellingTabby LAs, care homes, hospitals, tests, t&t
PH Wales LAs, tests, ONS deaths
NI Dashboard
Zoe Uk data
UK govt pressers Slides & data
ICNRC Intensive Care National Audit & Research reports
NHS t&t England & UK testing Weekly stats
R estimates UK & English regions
PHE Surveillance report infections & watchlists each Thursday
ONS England infection surveillance report each Friday
Datasets for ONS surveillance reports
ONS Roundup deaths, infections & economic reports
ECDC rolling 14-day incidence EEA & UK
Worldometer UK page
Our World in Data test positivity etc, DIY graphs
FT DIY graphs compare deaths, cases, raw / million pop
Covidly.com world summary & graphs
Alama Personal COVID risk assessment

==> Our STUDIES Corner

OP posts:
Thread gallery
50
Dawnlassie · 16/09/2020 19:03

@PrayingandHoping
@ancientgran

Thank you also

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2020 19:13

@FingonTheValiant

Also I’ve just seen that since March there have been 42047 positive cases in French care homes, and 10528 deaths, so approximately 25% death rate. Does that seem right for care homes? I didn’t think the outcomes were quite that bad...
... Seems high, but depends on age & frailty in the care homes hit For 85+ with T1 / T2 / CVD / dementia ... it's possible

Could they in fact be more like geriatric hospitals - in which case, not surprising

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2020 19:16

The figures on risk at each age are averages

Those in care homes would on average the most frail and dependent of their age group

  • most people who can stay in their own home, with help, do so - hence higher death rates than even the general population of those aged 80+ or whatever
OP posts:
screamer1 · 16/09/2020 19:19

Excuse the interruption to your discussions, but do the stats from the last 6 months still bare out as minimal risk for the under 12s?

screamer1 · 16/09/2020 19:19

Globally I mean?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2020 19:22

@screamer1

Excuse the interruption to your discussions, but do the stats from the last 6 months still bare out as minimal risk for the under 12s?
... Yes, their risk is absolutely tiny, on average

If a DC has some very serious health condition(s), then of course the parent must take the specific advice from their child's doctor

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 16/09/2020 19:28

BigChoc I know you’ve probably said this before but how does school testing work in Germany? Does the positive child go home and everyone in bubble? Plus does everyone get tested?

screamer1 · 16/09/2020 19:35

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy

It's going to be interesting to see what the hospital admissions rates do in the next few weeks, given the massive spike in active cases. I wonder if we'll have the same sudden jump, and then be back to a March situation.

Babyboomtastic · 16/09/2020 19:40

@Ecosse

No. You aren't right about people getting a test if they persevere. Or at least you significantly underestimate the amount of perseverance required.

My family needs 2 tests. We've managed to obtain one, from a friend with a spare home kit, but before that spent 3 days looking. That's not just logging in a couple of times a day, but every single hour of the day and night (up with poorly child.). That's with having a permanent tab open, and hitting refresh continually. It's not just that nothing convenient was available, but absolutely nothing available.

I've given up now, and we will just use the one test and assume it's the sale for all of us, but am fairly sure I was in three figures when I gave up.

Many people won't be able to get a test anywhere, however hard they try.

MRex · 16/09/2020 20:20

@screamer1 - how far under 12? Age 2-12 is about as low risk as it gets, subject to not having other severe illnesses. Under 2s have a tiny extra risk over and above the 2-12 range noted by most countries, it looks like the standard issue that little ones can get unstable temperatures and need a bit extra monitoring. It might also be that, premature or otherwise unwell babies excepted, children under 2 with covid require more hospital treatment because the temperature thresholds send them in faster and paramedics are less willing to take risks, preferring for paediatrics to just take a look. Which is all as it should be, but can mean the stats look more concerning.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2020 20:22

@MarshaBradyo

BigChoc I know you’ve probably said this before but how does school testing work in Germany? Does the positive child go home and everyone in bubble? Plus does everyone get tested?
... tbh, being childfree I'm not well up on that !

Any child with any cough or cold has to stay home until symptoms are gone.

Test results are back within a day usually, but everyone - child or adult - who has been tested has to stay home while awaiting results

Within the first couple of weeks as each state opened, we'd hear a school had a confirmed case or cases and was closed.
So initially, one confirmed case would closed an entire school
I don't know if that is still the case, but there don't seem to be many grumbles about schools atm

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2020 20:27

I've heard that once schools are closed (Germany) they have been testing every member of staff and every student, plus obviously an extra deep clean
I gather they reopen about 7 days afterwards

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 16/09/2020 20:31

@BigChocFrenzy

I've heard that once schools are closed (Germany) they have been testing every member of staff and every student, plus obviously an extra deep clean I gather they reopen about 7 days afterwards
That is impressive. They must get some good data too from that
BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2020 20:35

Interesting videos
gifs showing how the number of cases changed weekly over the age groups,
for Belgium and for the UK - the latter with 2 gifs, one for total cases and one with male/female coloured diferently

Remember though that the number of cases at was in reality 20-50 x higher than now,
but it gives a much better idea from about mid-July to now:

twitter.com/keithedkins/status/1306010908846682112

OP posts:
sirfredfredgeorge · 16/09/2020 20:43

Also I’ve just seen that since March there have been 42047 positive cases in French care homes, and 10528 deaths, so approximately 25% death rate. Does that seem right for care homes? I didn’t think the outcomes were quite that bad...

It suggests there were very large numbers of cases not detected - ie even in care homes there will be asymptomatic and low symptomatic cases which won't need any outside medical care and may not be tested.

As you suggest, no other data as pointed that sort of fatality rate.

whatsnext2 · 16/09/2020 20:45

Following on from discussions about cause of death and Covid on death certificates:

www.cebm.net/covid-19/death-certificate-data-covid-19-as-the-underlying-cause-of-death/

Overall about one in thirteen deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate did not have the disease as the underlying cause of death, however, this proportion has risen substantially to nearly a third over the last eight weeks.

Prokupatuscrakedatus · 16/09/2020 20:48

This is part of the official infographic issued in Berlin:

What to do if your child gets sick. I hope it is legible.

Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 18
Augustbreeze · 16/09/2020 21:00

-only to fluent German speakers, @Prokupatuscrakedatus ..... but it looks interesting!

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2020 21:11

This seems to be confirming my worst fears (also hurrah journalist who appears to have woken up):

inews.co.uk/news/politics/warrington-covid-19-cases-rise-tests-nhs-unavailable-local-lockdown-648437
Warrington is the latest area where Covid-19 cases are rising fast, but tests are often nowhere to be found
Warrington had one of the lowest infection rates in the country in the summer, but cases have quadrupled in the last week and it now has the sixth highest in England

“The case rate has quadrupled in a week, I am not exaggerating,” Director of Public Health at Warrington Council, Thara Raj, said. “And if we are set to quadruple again in a week’s time we will have overtaken Bolton and that is really worrying.”

She said it has been difficult to pinpoint the exact cause of the sudden spike in cases and puts it down to a combination factors, including people returning to work and increased socialising. There have also been several incidents involving specific venues where there have been outbreaks.

One popular pub became a source of several cases of the virus and was only discovered when one asymptomatic person who attended happened to get a test ahead of a routine procedure. When additional testing resources were brought in to the area at the time to counter the small outbreak, the Government website was still directing people out of Warrington to get tests.

“When we got wind of this outbreak I called an incident meeting … and we agreed to divert the mobile testing unit to Warrington in order to help because we thought people who had visited may be getting symptom,” Ms Raj said.

“And again the national algorithm sent them off to everywhere but Warrington. So we diverted a precious national resource to Warrington to help with a particular outbreak situation and yet people were still struggling to get a test locally.”

The huge spike in cases may still not be telling the full story as local leaders are hearing repeatedly from people who are unable to get hold of a test at all.

The data for community testing (Pillar 2) showed there were about 200 carried out a day in Warrington in July, which increased to 400 in August. So far during September, the average number of pillar 2 tests conducted on a daily basis has increased to almost 700 tests. There is not data available to show how many people applied for a test but were unsuccessful.

“I am being told personally by people that they can’t get hold of tests or appointments and it’s pre-booked appointments only – we have not been allowed to promote any walk-ins,” she said. “It is worrisome and I’m guessing that there are more outbreaks out there that are not being reported because people don’t know that they have got symptoms.”

This is really troubling. Leicester's problem was missed for a long time because the local council weren't getting the data on the pillar 2 tests.

In this case, it looks like a lack of availability of pillar 2 testing may be hiding something. The demand for tests was going up significantly BEFORE the schools went back.

This story seems to suggest that the shared mobile testing centre wasn't working too as the government system wasn't directing locals to the centre - even when it was moved back to Warrington (from Halton) after an outbreak was picked up by pure chance (which also suggests widespread undetected community spread).

The whole things just seems to confirm my suspicion that Warrington has had a woeful level of testing provision for a town of its size - and close proximity to Greater Manchester which was already a hot spot.

herecomesthsun · 16/09/2020 21:13

Guardian on deaths in Manchester starting to rise

herecomesthsun · 16/09/2020 21:17

@sirfredfredgeorge

Also I’ve just seen that since March there have been 42047 positive cases in French care homes, and 10528 deaths, so approximately 25% death rate. Does that seem right for care homes? I didn’t think the outcomes were quite that bad...

It suggests there were very large numbers of cases not detected - ie even in care homes there will be asymptomatic and low symptomatic cases which won't need any outside medical care and may not be tested.

As you suggest, no other data as pointed that sort of fatality rate.

The death rate for people with dementia in particular and covid can be very high.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53739223

NeurotrashWarrior · 16/09/2020 21:25

I believe that areas of Manchester are preparing for a bigger lockdown. A friend working in an area of social care for the nhs said shielding people are being sent to wf home and various other measures.

NE is supposed to be locking down (ish) from Friday.

Prokupatuscrakedatus · 16/09/2020 21:30

I couldn't find this in other languages. But I try to translate it:

  1. unspecific symptoms of an ordinary cold (temp below 37,5 °C, cold, cough) -> go to school
  2. cold symptoms are or get worse (temp up til 38,5°C) -> stay home at least 24 h until symptoms improve
  3. symptoms get worse or are definitely covid indicators (list provided) -> stay home, contact GP / health hotline -> GP / health authorities decide on a test -> child stays home till the results come in Test negative -> back to school after 24 h Test positve -> stay home at least 48 h, follow instructions, school / kita is informed -> back to school after quarantaine and 48 h without symptoms There are more pages:
  • why closed groups are important when no masks are worn (closure of a learn group vs closure of a whole school)
  • what turns you into a contact category I or II person
  • flowchart on what happens after a positive test:

There are no do it yourself tests. You get tested by a HCP either via your GP or if you do not have one (it is not obligatory) you go via the hotline.

Augustbreeze · 16/09/2020 21:49

Oh thank you so much @Prokupatuscrakedatus , that was really worth reading!

So, a cough (not further described) doesn't warrant a test, and there's an extra 24 hrs wait to see how symptoms go, how sensible. Nothing about changes to smell/taste though?

SistemaAddict · 16/09/2020 21:55

@NeurotrashWarrior can you tell me more about GM please? I read the update/briefing with the Mayor today but there was nothing in there about it. I've been asking him on Twitter about shielding but no response so I'm interested in this very much.