No one can fix this apart from us

[notevenat20]

It's clear that numbers of cases are now going up rapidly. It seems likely we will copy either Spain or France but a few weeks behind. The only way to stop this is for us to change our behaviour. There is no other way.

We need to stop socialising, wear masks, wash our hands, keep our distance and not decide to break the law/do the opposite just because the govt annoys us. We don't need to wait for the govt to pass laws or tell us what to do. We already know.

No one can fix this apart from us.

only we have the power to reduce the number of deaths

To be fair, we're doing a pretty good job of that. Yesterday only 6 people died of covid, day before 14. This isnt prefect, but although we have a lot of people catching it, they arent dying anymore. It could be they have better ways of treating it, or our restrictions have sensibly meant that only younger people who won't get as sick are catching it. (Or the idea its being less deadly is a possibility.)

I do think the panic needs to be reduced. This isn't the mass killer it was before.

Why bother, it's not going to go away and it's just not that dangerous.

@PennyDreadfuI No, we're not saying people who work in high contact jobs shouldn't socialise, we're saying EVERYONE should keep their socialising to a bare minimum!

Good thing that your opinion is entirely insignificant, block capitals and multiple exclamation marks aside.

I'm glad to hear that @IcedPurple, you should feel ashamed of yourself that you needed a public service announcement on MN to make yo see the error of your ways!

@DisgruntledGuineaPig I think that a couple of those deaths date back to April as well.

So let me get this right... You're saying that people should do nothing and see nobody, outside of work?

It's obviously not up to me. But it would be safest if at least we didn't go to each others houses in the next few months.

Nothing is safe, everything carries some risk. Sitting in your house for a year is a waste of life.

Like many others I didn't see my elderly family for 6 months. Providing they are happy, I'll carry on seeing them until we're told not to again.

noteven - you say hunker down till after the winter flu season is over. But what then? Last year, the virus was worst in March/April after the flu season.

Once we relax, it spreads. The virus is airborne and endemic.

Nothing is safe, everything carries some risk. Sitting in your house for a year is a waste of life.

I don't go to anyone's house and I also don't sit say home.

at home

@notevenat20

Nothing is safe, everything carries some risk. Sitting in your house for a year is a waste of life.

I don't go to anyone's house and I also don't sit say home.

What can we do then?

@notevenat20

So let me get this right... You're saying that people should do nothing and see nobody, outside of work?

It's obviously not up to me. But it would be safest if at least we didn't go to each others houses in the next few months.

"Safest" in what sense?

In the very narrow sense of reducing the spread of this one particular virus? Probably.

But 'safest' in the sense of protecting people from the very real harm caused by loneliness and isolation? Or checking up on elderly relatives?

But by all means lock yourself up for months on end if it makes you feel good. Just be aware that it doesn't make you a superior person.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

What can we do then?

I think it involves solitary exercise.

@notevenat20

Nothing is safe, everything carries some risk. Sitting in your house for a year is a waste of life.

I don't go to anyone's house and I also don't sit say home.

Well, that's fine.

Everyone who is scared can isolate themselves. Everyone who isn't can carry on as normal.

So you're expecting people to live a life of getting up and going to work, but no socialising in their free time, indefinitely? 🤣 aye alright then. I'll get on that.

You're right of course, OP.

The probability is that we'll have a vaccine next year, whether the Oxford one (probably still fine) or one of the others, or a choice. We'll also probably have better treatments.

In the meantime, we should do what we can to keep numbers down and prevent it being sufficiently widespread to filter into care homes and hospitals etc.

But this is not a popular view because it involves short term pain. But still, you're absolutely right.

The pause in the Oxford vaccine was not due to a bloke with a cold. It was due to a woman having a serious spinal inflammation, giving symptoms similar to MS. Cause is not known but it is a rare syndrome and normally a reaction to a virus.

It could be a coincidence, but the Oxford trial was paused before because a woman developed MS. That was judged to be unrelated, so the trial restarted, but having two participants with spinal inflammations needs thorough investigation.

Of course, there are other vaccines under development but most of them are ‘novel’ RNA vaccines using methods which have never yet led to a successful vaccine despite trying for over 20 years. Of course, maybe this time they will work, but no, I would not be expecting a vaccine this year, and probably not 2021 either.

www.statnews.com/2020/09/09/astrazeneca-covid19-vaccine-trial-hold-patient-report/

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine

@

But none of these behaviours stop the virus. They just slow down its spread. It was spreading throughout lockdown and will spread more quickly whenever more things open up. Most people are following 'the rules', but the virus will still spread, partly because many people are asymptomatic, but mainly because people have to work and eat and deliver post and treat sick people and drive buses and trains and, let's face it, socialise as we are social beings.

There is no magic solution. Lockdown was a pause, and, possibly, an extreme and in many other ways catastrophic pause. Social distancing is a go slow. Masks are probably largely a placebo, since the virus mostly spreads in situations where people aren't wearing masks (home and work) and TBH they don't seem to have made much difference in France and Spain.

I think some people want to believe that if we follow 'the rules' we can get rid of this, that if we wear masks and wash our hands it will go away. It won't. It will just fizzle more slowly.

You are preaching to the converted.
People are aware of the pandemic and the rules, but life has to go on.

Not everybody has the luxury of closing down.

My children need school, we have to work, bus drivers have to transport commuters, teachers have to be in crowded classrooms, nurses in A&E, lorry drivers transporting food, utility workers on site, care home staff etc.

@Ontopofthesunset

But none of these behaviours stop the virus. They just slow down its spread. It was spreading throughout lockdown and will spread more quickly whenever more things open up. Most people are following 'the rules', but the virus will still spread, partly because many people are asymptomatic, but mainly because people have to work and eat and deliver post and treat sick people and drive buses and trains and, let's face it, socialise as we are social beings.

There is no magic solution. Lockdown was a pause, and, possibly, an extreme and in many other ways catastrophic pause. Social distancing is a go slow. Masks are probably largely a placebo, since the virus mostly spreads in situations where people aren't wearing masks (home and work) and TBH they don't seem to have made much difference in France and Spain.

I think some people want to believe that if we follow 'the rules' we can get rid of this, that if we wear masks and wash our hands it will go away. It won't. It will just fizzle more slowly.

I agree with all of this!

you say hunker down till after the winter flu season is over. But what then? Last year, the virus was worst in March/April after the flu season.

I am really hoping for a medical advance by Spring. It's true that we had a tough time in the Spring but it would have been hugely worse if it had been the same time as the winter flu.

I think some people want to believe that if we follow 'the rules' we can get rid of this, that if we wear masks and wash our hands it will go away. It won't. It will just fizzle more slowly.

That's true, but fizzling slowly is much better than hundreds dying every week. If we knew that there would never be any medical advance I might agree with you.

We are all hoping for a medical advance but need to have a plan B.

The Oxford vaccine was the lead candidate as it is based on a proven technology. I was optimistic about it and even considered volunteering for the trial to get this period over and done with. Two participants with spinal inflammation means that I would much rather get the actual virus because as a woman under 50 my risk is very very low (and I know loads who had it in April not one of whom has long Covid). Maybe it can work, but they need to go slowly and take time to see what the effects are.

The next best vaccine candidate is the Chinese one (old technology). Pretty much all the others are based on techniques which sound amazing on paper, but have so far not lead to a vaccine.

The Oxford vaccine was the lead candidate as it is based on a proven technology

The trial is back running now.

@IcedPurple

No, we're not saying people who work in high contact jobs shouldn't socialise, we're saying EVERYONE should keep their socialising to a bare minimum!

Good thing that your opinion is entirely insignificant, block capitals and multiple exclamation marks aside

My opinion is no less significant than yours

One word in capitals to emphasis we are not singling out people in high contact jobs

One exclamation mark.

Now do you have anything worthwhile to add to the discussion or are you just here to pick other people's posts apart?