When will there be a backlash against these rule breakers?

[annabel85]

We know the government made errors back in March. They should have locked down quicker and messed up with care homes. However, the issue now is people not following rules. House parties, raves, mixing in big groups. People are blaming the government for the new rule of 6 and not the shameless delinquents who have been breaking rules.

The government have issued a clear warning to people with the new legislation. Follow the rules or cases will get worse and further restrictions will come. How long till people snap at those who aren't taking this seriously? The tolerance of the law abiding majority can only stretch so far.

PS - leave Cummings out of it. This is about the here and now.

My SIL is from Germany and in the area she is from she says people are being increasingly slack with mask-wearing etc

@MNnicknameforCVthreads
"I think it’s because Germans do as they’re told more than us"

Have to admit, I went to visit family in Greece not long ago and this is certainly not my perception at all.

There are social distancing and mask wearing rules there. Oddly the Germans and the Dutch were the absolute worst for not giving a shit.
My cousin who works in a large AI was horrified.

So I always take comments like the above with a pinch of salt. People are people wherever they are from. There really won't be a huge difference.

“ Will the rule breakers seek nhs care and in doing so increase the viral load of others? Plus infect the taxi driver who took the to hospital, and the shop assistant who served them the day before? Plus put the health of their friends and family at risk.
Utterly selfish.”

My NHS care was heavily restricted during and after the birth of my baby because of coronavirus and that plus lockdown has directly caused me to have PND, which has been improved through meeting other women in a similar situation in outdoor settings such as the park. We will continue to do so despite it breaking the rule of six. In doing so we considerably reduce the likelihood of us or our families need more NHS help due to our PND, and the risk of us needing the NHS due to coronavirus is much much smaller. I doubt you will answer this post, but I would like you to consider which of us is the selfish one.

I wonder if the strength of German employment laws and finically support have some impact ? It's a damn sight easier to obey the rules if you have some level of financial security, and very easy to want to push people to get back to normal if your job is at risk, hospitality or music / events

It’s not just raves etc, it’s people going on holiday, public transport. Why would you not pull these things back BEFORE school starts - because it is predictable that there would be problems.

Govt need to enforce rules - actually check quarantine and isolation are occurring etc. Find a way for mask exempt people to get certification and enforce mask wearing where necessary. This means Hiring people and providing funding for it, not just expecting businesses, schools, local councils etc to do it for free.

I spent most of pandemic in a country that has a govt that does joined up planning and very strict enforcement. Despite limiting rules, I think people over there have more freedom because they do not have to worry about getting corona and passing it onto vulnerable family members, school started back up quickly. Community cases are a fraction of UK (quite a few cases picked up from enforced quarantine and testing from returning travellers/residents, most of the cases picked up by govt surveillance of asymptomatic labourers that live in dormitories)

The problem is that what will keep us safe is against human nature. Humans are sociable animals - we really want to be amongst others - and for quite a lot of us, spending time with our immediate families isn't quite enough (and some of us don't even have immediate families). And its also much easier to accept restrictions if we know its for a finite period - something to get through and then it will all be over by xx. But its becoming increasingly clear that there isn't an xx at the moment. Our government are quite clearly handling this badly, but even the governments that are handling it well are seeing cases pop up as soon as restrictions are lifted. So, there's no real end in sight until the possibly mythical vaccine turns up. As a result, I totally understand why an 18 year old, who's life has been put on hold in so many respects for 6 months, who is either going off to a severely compromised experience at university (which they're still paying full whack for) or who is working in the sort of jobs that can't be done at home, or who is unemployed and bored out of their skull in their childhood bedroom is finding it hard to behave as required. I have every sympathy!

@MrBucket I can absolutely see why you need to do that. Sorry you’ve had a difficult time. But I do think your circumstances are totally different to people arranging birthday parties etc.

DH and I plus our DDs are close friends with family A, also 2 parents, 2 kids. Total 8. So we can't all meet up as a group. But DH can take DDs to friends house, meeting with Friend plus 2 kids, while other friend comes to our house and meets me. So then we are 6&2. But it's still the same mixing..
Or we could drive to Scotland and it would be fine, as all 4 children are under 12.

My NHS care was heavily restricted during and after the birth of my baby because of coronavirus and that plus lockdown has directly caused me to have PND, which has been improved through meeting other women in a similar situation in outdoor settings such as the park. We will continue to do so despite it breaking the rule of six. In doing so we considerably reduce the likelihood of us or our families need more NHS help due to our PND, and the risk of us needing the NHS due to coronavirus is much much smaller. I doubt you will answer this post, but I would like you to consider which of us is the selfish one.

Really sorry about your PND it sucks. But I don’t think you appreciate the seriousness of the situation. The fact you had medical care at all was because we didn’t let COvID run riot, people sacrificed for you. Many have died, others not got the treatment they need. There are easy ways for you to adjust your baby group numbers to comply. You can and should do your bit really. Your baby will grow and join society- you want that society to be a functioning, good for all structure. If we all start yelling what about me and stop doing what we should it’ll all go to shit. It’s not the type of world I want my kids to grow up in.

@Flaxmeadow

I was on a train in Manchester recently. I didnt want to be but it was unavoidable. In my carriage were

2 young men, who sat at a table but although all the seats around the table were available, chose to sit near the aisle. When the posters placed everywhere clearly requested everyone try to sit by that window. One had a mask that only covered his mouth, not his nose

2 women, looked like friends returning from a shopping trip, neither of them wearing a mask. Laughing and shrieking loudly

1 young woman, no mask, chatting loudly on her phone to someone in Arabic, pouting, pulling down her top and taking selfies for the whole journey

1 backpacker hippy type bloke, no mask

I honestly don't know why I didn't report them all to the conductor. I wish I had

Perhaps they were exempted.

There is a lot of noisy confusion and outcry on here

But it’s easy to get if you look at this chart and think about what Belgium did to not track Spain

So which line would we like

Humans are sociable animals - we really want to be amongst others - and for quite a lot of us, spending time with our immediate families isn't quite enough (and some of us don't even have immediate families).

Maybe more with extroverts. Sartre said 'Hell is other people'.

More than would care to admit are happy to step back a bit from socialising during all this.

Sweden is no longer on the quarantine list. Their cases aren't rising like those countries that locked down strictly because the actions they took have given them some level of herd immunity. Countries that locked down are obviously going to see cases rise as soon as they start to open up - what did you think was going to happen?

We can either follow Sweden or we can live a grey half life until there's a vaccine (with all the associated suicides, cancer deaths, etc of that half life). Bear in mind that the vaccine will not be this year, and there's no promises it'll be next year.

Are you really willing to live like this indefinitely?

@whiskybysidedoor

My NHS care was heavily restricted during and after the birth of my baby because of coronavirus and that plus lockdown has directly caused me to have PND, which has been improved through meeting other women in a similar situation in outdoor settings such as the park. We will continue to do so despite it breaking the rule of six. In doing so we considerably reduce the likelihood of us or our families need more NHS help due to our PND, and the risk of us needing the NHS due to coronavirus is much much smaller. I doubt you will answer this post, but I would like you to consider which of us is the selfish one.

Really sorry about your PND it sucks. But I don’t think you appreciate the seriousness of the situation. The fact you had medical care at all was because we didn’t let COvID run riot, people sacrificed for you. Many have died, others not got the treatment they need. There are easy ways for you to adjust your baby group numbers to comply. You can and should do your bit really. Your baby will grow and join society- you want that society to be a functioning, good for all structure. If we all start yelling what about me and stop doing what we should it’ll all go to shit. It’s not the type of world I want my kids to grow up in.

Ffs are you being serious??

Don't you dare make out anyone was lucky to get NHS care. It's abhorrent that it's not an automatic entitlement any more.

A world with attitudes like yours isn't a world I want my child to grow up in.

Put your own health last for the "greater good" fucking hell it's like a cult.

@annabel85

Humans are sociable animals - we really want to be amongst others - and for quite a lot of us, spending time with our immediate families isn't quite enough (and some of us don't even have immediate families).

Maybe more with extroverts. Sartre said 'Hell is other people'.

More than would care to admit are happy to step back a bit from socialising during all this.

I'm certainly not an extrovert but I miss my normal life. Please don't make this an introvert v extrovert thing - it's not.

@TrustTheGeneGenie I know, we all miss different things during this don't get me wrong. Being around other people all the time (outside your immediate bubble at least) is not necessarily one of them.

I think for the last few weeks you've been considered a bit wet if you still wanted to take precautions but the tide is turning now and we will start seeing the "covid police" re-emerge.

Strangely, the people who were so zealous about the rules being enforced at the beginning are the same ones who have been saying "enough's enough". Sadly the next few weeks are likely to show us it wasn't enough.

[quote annabel85]@TrustTheGeneGenie I know, we all miss different things during this don't get me wrong. Being around other people all the time (outside your immediate bubble at least) is not necessarily one of them.[/quote]
Yes I'm sure some people don't miss that but don't pretend it's a majority of people when it's quite obviously not.

Apart from anything else, it was sacrifices I made to my own and my baby’s medical care that meant the NHS wasn’t overwhelmed by Covid. It is sacrifices that I continue to make in not being able to access support from the NHS that mean that others are getting care. It’s not like I need tone-deaf posters explaining why there were restrictions. I lived through it.

Things mike surgery was stopped due to the evidence that surgery was high risk. I can imagine the outcry if routine surgery had gone ahead but patients then died of covid.

And my mother is a doctor and I have lost someone close to me to Covid-related complications before someone comes the “you don’t understand what it’s like” with me

@Pomegranatepompom

Things mike surgery was stopped due to the evidence that surgery was high risk. I can imagine the outcry if routine surgery had gone ahead but patients then died of covid.

People should have been allowed to make that choice.

It’s ridiculous, my daughter is in a bubble of 300, say you have 3 children in 3 different schools, it is going to spread. I am carrying as normal, luckily we are a family of 4 and only have my parents visit but we will only meet them outside now as the risk to them is going up. I am ignoring the governments silly rules and using my common sense and hoping none of us get ill.

@midgebabe

I wonder if the strength of German employment laws and finically support have some impact ? It's a damn sight easier to obey the rules if you have some level of financial security, and very easy to want to push people to get back to normal if your job is at risk, hospitality or music / events

I think this certainly must have an impact. People will simply not self isolate if all they get is SSP or they are at risk of losing their job. The government need to step up with proper isolation pay. People can parrot on about “selfishness” and “civic duty” all they like but this is the cold, hard reality.

I think we are at a bit of a low morale moment nationally too as the 6 month marker appears. It’s hard not to feel deflated that after 6 months nothing seems any better and people are fed up. This seems like pretty normal human behaviour to me and I’d have thought the government would be aware of that.

In terms of following a Sweden model - we have moved from “flattening the curve” for sure. The truth is we are at a stage we can cope with more hospitalisations, ICU admissions, and deaths - of course we can’t risk that going out of control. It’s not an easy sell to the public though that to have more freedoms we have to accept that more people will die, even if not as many as before.