WHO advises follow Sweden now

[Pixel7777]

In the news today..

"One of the World Health Organization’s six special envoys on coronavirus has said other countries should emulate Sweden’s virus response as a model for the long-term. Sweden has avoided introducing hard lockdown measures, and seen its case numbers fall in recent months - sparking a global debate about the efficacy of lockdowns"

I can understand why.

However, to successfully emulate Sweden, Government need the trust of their people (which has largely been lost in the U.K.), and Covid-deniers need to stop spinning Sweden as an example of how you can carry on completely as normal (which Sweden did not).

Sweden has particular things which help it use this approach,

Trust as mentioned and many living alone
Excellent healthcare which was never overwhelmed
Low population density
Good general health...

Well thats ridiculous as we were overwhelmed as it was with the lockdown.
It may work for

• small population
• good healthcare
• less dense
• good diet
• low ethnic minorities
• big schools low class sizes
• low tourism
• population that thinks about others
• less overweight

What about long covid are they seeing those? If not why not?

I noticed it mentioned that in Sweden they asked the over 70s to self isolate.

thats helpful seeing as theyb originally said the sooner we lockdown the better

sweden are different as mentioned better health care system less people-more sense

we cant do that here its too late

Makes me wonder if they are changing tack now they are realising many cases are mild now testing is higher. Not sure though

Japan didn't have a lockdown either, had no excess deaths and has a high elderly population.

Their population was told to take care, stay away from crowded places, wear masks and wash hands.

Maybe we need to have a detailed list of how life in Sweden works so that our government can implement it here then?

How will that work just with schools, without even thinking about anything else?

Where's the evidence that people in Sweden have more sense? And what does that mean anyway?

@Keepdistance hospitals were not overwhelmed here though?

Had to take DH in for emergency, very empty hospital, my DB and his wife are GPs and have been twiddling their thumbs (feeling embarrassed about Thursday night applause), nightingale hospitals empty...

Not overwhelmed I think

@Treesofwood

Where's the evidence that people in Sweden have more sense? And what does that mean anyway?

Didn't they voluntarily enter a form of lockdown - so stayed away from crowded areas, worked from home etc, without being compelled to do it?

How have WHO advised that other countries lower population density to the same level as Sweden?

@RedRumTheHorse

Japan didn't have a lockdown either, had no excess deaths and has a high elderly population.

Their population was told to take care, stay away from crowded places, wear masks and wash hands.

For all those mentioning Sweden's low population density, as mentioned above Japan also didn't fully lockdown and their population is 126 million.

I think we are a dirty country. The Swedes and Japanese must be clean people.

Isn't Japan having a second wave and things not going that well? I'm confused. I know their prime minister just resigned..

In Japan, they're already immersed in the culture of mask wearing and hand washing for respiratory/aerosol illnesses.

Though as we are becoming a masked society, perhaps this is why the WHO are changing their course of advice. We are responding to infection control needs differently to how we normally would because we now take things a lot more seriously with consideration for the wider population.

I just don't understand how they can ignore the blatant differences between us and Sweden which would make it difficult for us to follow Sweden's model.

Schools were closed in Japan for an extended period. Upon reopening parents had to take their child temperature and enter it on database, children returned on alternating days and lunchtimes had to be completed in silence. These are just some of the controls put in place. So there was a lockdown of some kind.

I was just reading BMJ criticism of Japan, sooner how things will go there. I knew they were not testing much to start with.

www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3221

Let’s see how countries cope with winter before we go and follow their way. It’s not an exact science and scientists will disagree with each other and I don’t think it’s that simple just to follow Sweden as a country.

Lots of countries who had with low numbers earlier in the year are now experiencing high case numbers or rises in cases.

I’m not sure we’re that far off Sweden right now. Compliance, schools opening, wfh

@Keepdistance

Well thats ridiculous as we were overwhelmed as it was with the lockdown. It may work for

• small population
• good healthcare
• less dense
• good diet
• low ethnic minorities
• big schools low class sizes
• low tourism
• population that thinks about others
• less overweight

What about long covid are they seeing those? If not why not?

We were absolutely not overwhelmed.

Let's not re-write history here.

Harsh lockdown eg Spain doesn’t make sense to me, I’m glad we didn’t do same without outdoor exercise.

However what does WHO think of NZ? Obviously no one can go backwards, and even if they could I doubt we could do the same, but is it a good place to be in their eyes I wonder

The WHO flipfloping again I see.

We weren't overwhelmed because they cancelled all schedules operations and did emergencies only. They had ICU and HDI increase in capacity and all staff were sent to these where necessary.

Regular appointments were cancelled.

Hospitals were emptied by sending patients to care homes.

Hats off to the nhs they pulled a blinder getting as many patients in. And worked some redo unlike hours in horrendous conditions to save as many lives as possible.

But don't forget many didn't get to hospital either. They dies at home because their lips weren't blue.

Let’s see how countries cope with winter before we go and follow their way.

Agree. Back in June, Sweden were seen as a failure having the highest death rate per head of population despite its sparse poplilation and infection levels that meant its citizens weren’t welcome in Europe. Things got a lot better over the past few months which I wonder is partly due to the population being careful having been stung with the ignominy of being cast as pariahs by their Nordic neighbours.

I think we have stuff to learn from Sweden, but caution needs to be maintained. There have been too many premature judgements called with this virus.

Is it flip flopping or changing advice based on the latest evidence?

Fucked if I know which country has done this 'best' and who to emulate, but I'm fine with organisations saying "we recommended ABC based on what we knew then but now we know more we recommend XYZ".