WHO advises follow Sweden now

[Pixel7777]

In the news today..

"One of the World Health Organization’s six special envoys on coronavirus has said other countries should emulate Sweden’s virus response as a model for the long-term. Sweden has avoided introducing hard lockdown measures, and seen its case numbers fall in recent months - sparking a global debate about the efficacy of lockdowns"

I don't think we are that different now except for our local lockdowns in some areas.

We'd need Sweden's tax and social care system to emulate their country though.

MH111, the population density of Stockholm is 3,865/km2 vs that of London which is 5,451/km2.
25.4/km2 nationally vs 267/km2 respectively.

The very big issue in the U.K. is that we have NOT protected the most vulnerable. We’ve sent people who were ill with Covid wo any testing back to the care home. Where they started to spread the virus. Etc....

Exactly. We locked down to 'protect the vulnerable' at the same time that Covid was spreading like wildfire amongst some of our most vulnerable. What a cluster fuck that was 🤦‍♀️

Amazing how we had to be taught to wash our hands. We are that bad!
Having already received one hospital acquired infection I hope the NHS were taking this on board as well.

Sweden does have some reasonable sized cities. They are not all living 5 miles apart from one another. Reality is that the Swedish Government did not panic as much as Johnson (who of course was originally in denial over the whole thing shaking hands with Coronavirus patients etc). Once he realised it could get serious and factored in that the NHS was already slightly less than ‘world beating’ he just hit the panic button.

Sweden’s population is not ‘sparse’
The vast majority of swedes live in urban areas ie Stockholm, which have comparative population density’s to the UK

And there is only one Stockholm. The UK has umpteen densely populated cities and conurbations where many people live in overcrowded situations and, perhaps more significantly, are also socioeconomically disadvantaged. We are nothing like Sweden.

We'd need Sweden's tax and social care system to emulate their country though.

Exactly. Wish we had it.

There is a simple reason that Sweden’s approach couldn’t simply be replicated in the UK, and that is the social security safety net. When we (here in Sweden) have needed to stay home due to symptoms, no matter how mild, we have a decent sick pay system (but then so does the UK, so not too different there I guess), but crucially, if our kids have the slightest symptom and we have to stay off work to look after them, we get VAB, the right to stay home with your sick child and receive benefit money. So it’s much much more doable for people to be able to stick to the rules about not going out and about if sick, and there isn’t a situation where parents feel so worried about losing their job that they have no choice but to send a sick kid to school.

Abe Shinzo stood down as Prime Minister of Japan because he has been ill for some years
nothing to do with COVID

This is looking a bit more positive. Hopefully some sanity to follow. www.expressen.se/nyheter/johan-giesecke-far-toppuppdrag-pa-who/ (obviously will need to translate!)

Former state epidemiologist Johan Giesecke gets a new top assignment at the World Health Organization WHO, he confirms for Ekot.
The epidemiologist announced just a few days ago that his consulting contract with the Public Health Agency expires at the turn of the year and that he will then end.
Giesecke is already an adviser to the WHO, but now he will be vice chairman of the STAG-IH group (The Strategic and Technical Advisory Group for Infectious Hazards). Among other things, the group develops strategies for how the WHO should act in various viruses, such as the coronavirus.
When Giesecke appeared in Swedish Radio's "Sunday interview" a few days ago, he said that he believes that the spread of the coronavirus will continue for some time to come in the form of cluster infection.

• I think we have to get used to the fact that this disease will not disappear.

(translated)

Positive in the sense that perhaps the WHO will drop some of their advice, especially those with limited evidence, such as masking children. Also hopefully no return to lockdowns. We all know the virus is going nowhere.

What Sweden did was to set a strategy for the long haul and to stick with it. The tight lockdowns are not sustainable, have enormous social and economic cost (not least on children and young people), and when they are relaxed, the virus re-emerges.

From the beginning, Sweden set out an approach of how to live with the virus long-term, without lots of contradictory messages. So social distancing, no large gatherings, but children in school and no inhuman policies such as banning relatives from funerals. I know which government I’d rather have.

Eyewhisker, totally agree.

Doesn’t Sweden also have quite a high proportion of people living alone, whereas we have quite a few multi-generational households

@Eyewhisker

Yes - good points - and I know which Government I’d prefer too.......

I'm unconvinced re Sweden.

I like their approach in that it's a bearable lifestyle.

But their case and death results are comparable to UK/Spain/France/Belgium/Italy type levels. When compared to Norway/Finland/Iceland, Sweden has fared terribly. As another Scandinavian country with a similar environment and outlook, surely it should have been closer to the second group of countries if a stricter lockdown really made no difference?

But as other countries are opening up after lockdown they are seeing cases rise again and more threats of a lockdown.

Is Sweden on a straight downward trend now? It’s interesting. We’ll only know for sure in a year or so once this has all played out.

I noticed it mentioned that in Sweden they asked the over 70s to self isolate

Greeted by horror and talk of rebellion by the over 70s here when suggested, so very quickly dropped.

We were absolutely not overwhelmed

Depends, the Govt stopped almost all NHS treatments and testing, Covid patients were told to stay at home (which contributed to our death rate) elderly shipped off to care homes, 111 would decide on any hospitalisation/paramedics, so many hospitals were left empty.

Was that worth it to spare the govt embarrassment? mmmmmmm

@QuestionMarkNow

Based on total figures over course of the pandemic, Sweden are not highest, but back around in the early summer, Sweden had the worst death rate (ie most deaths per head of population over the past week).

We were absolutely not overwhelmed

But at what cost.... We repurposed much of our health provision to cope (albeit that wasn’t needed in low infection areas like the West Country,
but it absolutely was in London).

Had we not done that, not only would we have been overwhelmed as we tried to carry on regardless (broken leg? No problem. Covid? Sorry, we’re full!)

@Eyewhisker

We’ve disagreed quite a bit on here, but I broadly agree with your last post.

The only other ingredient you need to make Sweden’s strategy work is the people. I’m not sure we’re compliant or community minded enough (which be true for most other countries too, not just the U.K.).

[quote CoffeeandCroissant]Full interview is here:
www.magic.co.nz/home/news/2020/08/nz-should-move-to-similar-approach-to-covid-as-sweden--who-speci.html[/quote]
Thank you for this, Coffee.

It's well worth listening to the whole thing and especially focusing on what Dr Nabarro actually says, not on the way the interviewer is trying to frame it.

Family member was tested twice for Covid before being moved to a Care home in Scotland. So some were following the rules.

Family member was tested twice for Covid before being moved to a Care home in Scotland. So some were following the rules

Testing of the elderly before going to a care home was never a guideline, let alone a "rule"
The reality is the govt said in March/April that CV posed little or no threat to the elderly or care home staff.