Isn't it glaringly obvious that the biggest risk with reopening schools is to the parents?

[ScammedOrWhat]

I'm astounded and angry that the government's messaging around schools reopening has been deliberately spun to avoid mentioning that the biggest risk is surely that kids are going to spread it to their parents.

Chris Whitty's statement avoided saying this, but if you read between the lines it is clear. He DID NOT say reopening schools was "safe" as reported by the media. He said that the risk to children's health from catching Coronavirus at school was outweighed by the bigger risks to their wellbeing in not going to school.

The further reports today that children are at low risk from dying or becoming seriously ill also support that. But what they're NOT saying is that there is absolutely nothing to say children won't carry the virus home.

Children's parents and grandparents are at considerably increased risk once schools reopen.

I'm furious with the government for not being upfront about this. The messaging should be: - yes children need to go back to school, but parents need to be aware that they are more likely to be exposed and dial back their social mixing accordingly.

Children should be taught vigilance and good social distancing and hygiene principles. They should be taught what symptoms to look out for in themselves and their friends, and to report them immediately for rapid testing.

They could have spent the summer pushing these messages out while investing in santization equipment- extra sinks outside, hand santitizer stations, free mask provision etc for schools. So the message should be - your child is probably safe from getting ill but you the parents are not.

You set do you seriously believe that to gain trust and reassure you post pictures that are totally false and misleading of the situation?

In society it's lies and untruths that's cause the distrust.

It happens everyday. If someone says something in your friendship group you disagree with or that slags someone off and they blatantly lie that they didn't.

The next time - when they may be telling the truth - the assumption is that they lied before and could be lying again.

If schools are completely risk free and they stood by their position then they don't have a reason to use false messaging.

I highly doubt were at 1.ive just googled and found nothing. For something this important why isn't it the current alert level a standing item on the news?

Mistype!!!! We are probably down to 2 now.

It might be my googling but there has been nothing about the alert level since June. Nothing on the JBC 'website'
Another sodding gimmick that was just a waste of time and money. That the government hope we'll just forget.

Yes of course this is true. But I would have thought most parents would be ok with it for the benefit of their DC? I would rather take my chance with a virus with a very low death rate than have my DC stuck at home any longer. They need socialisation, they need an education, they need to be allowed to be children. So many DC developing anxiety putting on weight, having the academic gap widened between them and their peers. Worse, some living in abusive homes or severe poverty with no food (and no heat in winter etc).

The risk from that is worse than the risk of the virus imo.

Yes I am well aware that my potential for exposure from work (NHS) and exposure from 3 DC at 3 different schools is great - that is why we are sticking rigidly to social distancing rules etc. I agree with the PPs suggesting we exercise more caution due to the risk of us becoming exposed. I didn't attend my friend's baby's birthday party the other day for example for this reason.

Obviously teachers need a mention here too. I do believe parents are as at risk as teachers because our DC are every bit as exposed to those 30+ children as that teacher is. However it is one thing taking the 'hit' for your own DC, but being in that position for a not-good-enough-wage and for the benefit of a society who lets face it, clearly doesn't appreciate their worth? That sucks.

X posts stealth you obviously read my mistake and thought WFT just as I did

I seriously think the people responsible for setting it up would look blank if they were asked. It was a gimmick at the time and they're hoping we've all forgotten.

@notevenat20

Children are not going to be sitting spaced out in class or in the lunch hall. No teacher is going to be wearing PPE and taking a child's temperature at the gate.

They will be eating their packed lunch in their classroom instead it seems.

What PPE would teachers like to be wearing?

Are schools banned from taking temperatures out of interest?

@notevenat20 The guidance states PPE and temperature checked are not needed.

@Mintjulia

Parents of school age children are rarely over 65 so not, as a group, at much increased risk. I know a few will be - my ds's df is mid 60s - but a low percentage.

They generally drop dcs off outside so little increased risk of parent to parent contact.

The biggest risk seems to be to staff with health conditions, and to the few older parents, and any elderly relatives doing school run.

A parent doesn't have to be over 65 to have increased risks; you have clinically vulnerable, extremely clinically vulnerable, male and over 50 (over 50s have been included in the flu program this year) etc. It doesn't have to be parent to parent it can be child to parent - I won't be stopping tucking my 5 year old in and giving her a kiss goodnight, giving her a hug when she falls over, wiping her tears when she cries. I won't socially distance from my 5 year old but as a clinically vulnerable parent by schools not being safe I am at increased risk (I DO NOT WANT SCHOOLS TO CLOSE, I DO NOT WANT TO DEREGISTER MY CHILD - I want a safe environment for the teachers and TAs, for my child and for me).

That doesn't mean schools cannot do it though - all of my DC had temp checks every day this week and all teachers wore PPE. The kids wore masks in communal areas (UK but not England).

School is the biggest risk because there is simply no attempt being made to limit transmission. It is six hours close contact no mitigation.

This is not literally true. First all the schools (should) have put in new measures. E.g. staggered pick up/drop off, hand washing, surface cleaning, bubbles with limited social mixing.

Second, there is no evidence that I have seen from the many places with open schools that they are the main source of additional infections.

Also, when you say work places are covid secure, their measures are much like those of schools. If I work in a busy cafe I have many more than 30 potentially infected people in front of me every day.

I’m not sure why you think the government needs to have pushed a message that it’s ok for kids but the risk is to parents. What does that serve? As you say it’s obvious so why do they need to?

It's obvious to some but not to all. The message that was inferred by the media from Chris Whitty's announcement was "schools are safe". They are not. Children will catch and spread it. It's just that the implications of them not going are far worse for children than the risk to their health from COVID.

I highly doubt were at 1.ive just googled and found nothing. For something this important why isn't it the current alert level a standing item on the news?

Oh yeah those alert levels! They jumped on them as a gimmick because they saw NZ and Scotland using them and thought they sounded good. But then realised it was too inconvenient for them to actually follow them so the dropped them almost immediately

To those who replied to me - but the photos the media have shown are not misleading across the board? Many many schools have worked very hard to ensure that come September the schooling experience will be quite different to how it was. I don’t know how effective it will be yet, no one does, but we have to try. In my area there are currently 24 active cases in a borough of hundreds of thousands. We are in a vastly different situation than in February/ March when the virus was rampant and we were all mixing completely and utterly, and rammed up close on transport and in large gatherings.

I do agree it would be constructive if the government treated us all like intelligent adults and simply laid it all out but they have never done that. As someone said everything is reduced to messages they perceive will be understood by the masses.

But I still don’t see the problem with the media putting up images of the different scenes in schools. Lots and lots of people are terrified. You only have to read posts here by perfectly healthy women with perfectly healthy children who have not let their children interact with society since March. If people need encouragement in order to allow their children to return to school I really don’t see the harm. If you’re intelligent enough to know that it’s not totally risk free then you just go ‘ok not EVERY class is going to look like this’ but it’s equally true that some classes ARE! Are you saying we have to deny that truth?

@YouSetTheTone

To those who replied to me - but the photos the media have shown are not misleading across the board? Many many schools have worked very hard to ensure that come September the schooling experience will be quite different to how it was. I don’t know how effective it will be yet, no one does, but we have to try. In my area there are currently 24 active cases in a borough of hundreds of thousands. We are in a vastly different situation than in February/ March when the virus was rampant and we were all mixing completely and utterly, and rammed up close on transport and in large gatherings.

I do agree it would be constructive if the government treated us all like intelligent adults and simply laid it all out but they have never done that. As someone said everything is reduced to messages they perceive will be understood by the masses.

But I still don’t see the problem with the media putting up images of the different scenes in schools. Lots and lots of people are terrified. You only have to read posts here by perfectly healthy women with perfectly healthy children who have not let their children interact with society since March. If people need encouragement in order to allow their children to return to school I really don’t see the harm. If you’re intelligent enough to know that it’s not totally risk free then you just go ‘ok not EVERY class is going to look like this’ but it’s equally true that some classes ARE! Are you saying we have to deny that truth?

EVERY school has worked hard to implement the guidance.

HTs everywhere working through their summer holiday having jones school through Easter and half terms and BH.

I'm actually quite concerned you think a picture of 2 junior kids lined up outside a school with masks on is representative.

Government guidance says masks aren't needed. (And now undated just to secondary in high incidence areas)

That the picture of the teacher stood at gates in gloves, apron, masks and with thermometer is a true representation.

Government guidances says you cannot do these things.

There may be an odd primary very rurally where class sizes are 15/20 and classrooms are large.

Credit yourself with some intelligence and work out that pictures of classrooms and ) kids are not a representation of the norm.

Yes of course this is true. But I would have thought most parents would be ok with it for the benefit of their DC?

Yes, and I completely agree that the kids should be going back. It has been far too long for them. I'm not opposed to schools reopening at all.

But this is happening just as people have started mixing with their older parents again, grandparents have started 'merging households' with their grandchildren. People are going to the pub more. Peoples guards have dropped.

I'm telling anyone who will listen that it may be ok to do those things for another week or so but as soon as the DCs are back in school, they will be exposed and the risks will increase, so that sort of contact should really be seriously reconsidered.

@notevenat20

School is the biggest risk because there is simply no attempt being made to limit transmission. It is six hours close contact no mitigation.

This is not literally true. First all the schools (should) have put in new measures. E.g. staggered pick up/drop off, hand washing, surface cleaning, bubbles with limited social mixing.

Second, there is no evidence that I have seen from the many places with open schools that they are the main source of additional infections.

Also, when you say work places are covid secure, their measures are much like those of schools. If I work in a busy cafe I have many more than 30 potentially infected people in front of me every day.

First - The main mitigations are distancing, ventilation, masks. None are possible in the classroom. Hand washing is insufficient. If you recall, Johnson nearly ended up on a ventilator after protecting himself with hand washing alone.

Second - Israel and USA

Third - distancing, masks, ventilation and time in contact with a covid-positive person are all totally incomparable.

Should have added, bubbles are absolute bullshit in secondary.

They are fairy tale stuff, put about to sound soothing.

And can I also add secondary teachers aren’t part of bubbles so makes it even more idiotic.

Nurserys etc haven't seen a huge increase because at the moment the r rate is low and there has been a lot of outdoor activity.

The Great British Public in general, really don't understand the term exponential. They can't see that once numbers start to rise, which is inevitable with large numbers mixing indoors, then it won't be very long before those tiny numbers aren't tiny any more.

But of course I don’t think those are representative! Are you all talking about some particular photograph? I’m talking about images I have seen of the different environment within schools as per the guidelines.

I don’t know the particular photo you describe here but it sounds like an image that exaggerates those same new health and safety procedures. It’s an advert for the new school system surely? Parents who aren’t intelligent enough to already realise that their children aren’t going to be in a class of four with a teacher in full PPE taking the child’s temperature as they arrive are going to quickly realise that’s not the case.... but they might hopefully have got the impression that schools have worked hard to minimise the risk of widespread outbreaks. They might then therefore return their child to school! This is a good thing!

Being dishonest is not a good thing in a democracy.

It’s an advert for the new school system surely? Parents who aren’t intelligent enough to already realise that their children aren’t going to be in a class of four with a teacher in full PPE taking the child’s temperature as they arrive are going to quickly realise that’s not the case...

The main target of that propaganda campaign isn't parents of school age kids, it's the wider British public, to create public opinion pressure for hapless parents and their lazy kids to go back to work/school respectively.

Nudge theory in action.

Should have added, bubbles are absolute bullshit in secondary.

Why do you say that? Remember the aim is to reduce the number of interactions not to eliminate them.

400 parents and grandparents waiting in the playground for their children to be brought out of infants. The playground is not big enough to Social distance

Schools should have staggered drop off/pick ups and a one parent/carer per child.