Isn't it glaringly obvious that the biggest risk with reopening schools is to the parents?

[ScammedOrWhat]

I'm astounded and angry that the government's messaging around schools reopening has been deliberately spun to avoid mentioning that the biggest risk is surely that kids are going to spread it to their parents.

Chris Whitty's statement avoided saying this, but if you read between the lines it is clear. He DID NOT say reopening schools was "safe" as reported by the media. He said that the risk to children's health from catching Coronavirus at school was outweighed by the bigger risks to their wellbeing in not going to school.

The further reports today that children are at low risk from dying or becoming seriously ill also support that. But what they're NOT saying is that there is absolutely nothing to say children won't carry the virus home.

Children's parents and grandparents are at considerably increased risk once schools reopen.

I'm furious with the government for not being upfront about this. The messaging should be: - yes children need to go back to school, but parents need to be aware that they are more likely to be exposed and dial back their social mixing accordingly.

Children should be taught vigilance and good social distancing and hygiene principles. They should be taught what symptoms to look out for in themselves and their friends, and to report them immediately for rapid testing.

They could have spent the summer pushing these messages out while investing in santization equipment- extra sinks outside, hand santitizer stations, free mask provision etc for schools. So the message should be - your child is probably safe from getting ill but you the parents are not.

But school is compulsory and I can't avoid the 'brave' types any more.

I am not sure I buy this distinction. First, going to work is also compulsory now if your employer demands it. That affects many more people. Second, other people socialising, going out, going to work increases the risk that I will get covid. I can only catch it from someone else so the more people have it, the more at risk I am.

It’s not so simple as saying “ Economy first Stuff us and our health” because the long term effect of a poor economy on our health is immeasurable.

Worth noting the All Party Parliamentary Group concluded it is not economy or health, but economy and health - and tackling covid properly is the best way to get the economy up and running again.

appgcoronavirus.marchforchange.uk/appg_details

inews.co.uk/news/uk/coronavirus-uk-zero-covid-strategy-explained-569802

@notevenat20

But school is compulsory and I can't avoid the 'brave' types any more.

I am not sure I buy this distinction. First, going to work is also compulsory now if your employer demands it. That affects many more people. Second, other people socialising, going out, going to work increases the risk that I will get covid. I can only catch it from someone else so the more people have it, the more at risk I am.

You may not 'buy it' but it is factual.

Work has to be covid secure.

School is the biggest risk because there is simply no attempt being made to limit transmission. It is six hours close contact no mitigation.

No one is working like that.

Yes it’s glaringly obvious! You’d have to be a bit dim not to make that connection after six months of daily reporting and information dissemination on a global pandemic. The government’s job is to make it happen. Our job is to weigh up what we know and proceed as we wish.

But it’s a risk I’m prepared to take. What’s the alternative? Continued mass disruption to our children’s social and educational development? Continued mass disruption to the economy? The economy and lives go together- there have been many discussions about this fact. On an individual level if you are unhappy with that risk then you should make your own decisions. But on a society level the current return to school has to be majority plan.

I totally appreciate that for many people the situation is complicated for various reasons but the country cannot cater for everyone (ie close down schools so there’s no possible transmission to parents/ grandparents/ teachers). It just can’t. If it does it shuts down parts of the economy, compromises the future for our children and their education and where does that leave us all? Vulnerable people need a flourishing economy/ society so there are provisions to support them.

I’m not sure why you think the government needs to have pushed a message that it’s ok for kids but the risk is to parents. What does that serve? As you say it’s obvious so why do they need to?

The risk to parents is infinitely less than the risk to children stuck in abusive homes, or in homes where their only meal of the day is served at school.

CV19 is only one risk factor in deciding its time children were back in school. I support them going back wholeheartedly.

parents need to be aware that they are more likely to be exposed and dial back their social mixing accordingly.

This is the key bit for me. So many people seem to be saying ‘well they’ll be mixing at school so we may as well mix more socially’. Surely it’s the opposite, we want them in school so we need to dial back on what we’re doing elsewhere. That message doesn’t seem to be coming through well though.

@mellongoose

The risk to parents is infinitely less than the risk to children stuck in abusive homes, or in homes where their only meal of the day is served at school.

CV19 is only one risk factor in deciding its time children were back in school. I support them going back wholeheartedly.

Very good points.

@DamitJanet

parents need to be aware that they are more likely to be exposed and dial back their social mixing accordingly.

This is the key bit for me. So many people seem to be saying ‘well they’ll be mixing at school so we may as well mix more socially’. Surely it’s the opposite, we want them in school so we need to dial back on what we’re doing elsewhere. That message doesn’t seem to be coming through well though.

Yes absolutely.

Massive number of stupid posts saying 'if I am doing X, I may as well do y and z aswell'.

Very infuriating!

@notevenat20

If you are looking at clinical vulnerability (the flu jab group, sometimes called the moderate risk group), it includes the pregnant

What are the health risks to mother and child of covid?

This is easily the best source to answer that www.npeu.ox.ac.uk/ukoss/current-surveillance/covid-19-in-pregnancy

What I want to know is what happened to these alert levels which were announced with great fanfare? Were they just a bit of a gimmick the government is now hoping we'll all forget about?

100% the risk is to parents, grandparents, school staff.... and medically vulnerable children.

They aren't telling us this. They are in fact showing us pictures and clips of socially distanced classrooms, trying to make us think that this is what this is what it will be like next week.

I recommend a complaining about this to try to get some accurate reporting on the return to school.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint/#/Complaint

I too am annoyed about the 'elephant in the room' every time it's mentioned that kids will be fine and the chances of them becoming seriously ill is miniscule. Yes, we know! But they are still potential vectors of the virus.

For those interested, see Dr John Campbell's video on 'Children as infection drivers'. He's not biased and looks at the latest studies.

But why do the government need to spell out the obvious? What’s the actual harm in photos that might reassure anxious parents? Why are people getting worked up about this. For months we’ve had the opposite rammed down our throats - photos of ‘packed’ beaches etc taken at angles that look worse. We’ve had MSM screaming that cases are rising/ tripling etc (when not putting info into context like cases might be rising but deaths aren’t or it’s ‘tripled’ from 2 to 6). What’s wrong with a bit of balance at a time when lots of people are anxious about the return to school precisely because of aforementioned media reporting etc?
Some schools ARE putting safe and appropriate measures in (my local primary is) so why is it bad to show this?

@YouSetTheTone

But why do the government need to spell out the obvious? What’s the actual harm in photos that might reassure anxious parents? Why are people getting worked up about this. For months we’ve had the opposite rammed down our throats - photos of ‘packed’ beaches etc taken at angles that look worse. We’ve had MSM screaming that cases are rising/ tripling etc (when not putting info into context like cases might be rising but deaths aren’t or it’s ‘tripled’ from 2 to 6). What’s wrong with a bit of balance at a time when lots of people are anxious about the return to school precisely because of aforementioned media reporting etc? Some schools ARE putting safe and appropriate measures in (my local primary is) so why is it bad to show this?

Government should be straightforward and honest.

The MSM is irrelevant.

It is not balance to counter one lie with another, that's just compounding the problem.

If the government had any respect for you, or me, or our children, they would just be direct and truthful.

It's more to adults who are at higher risk than to parents as a cohort, whether they're teachers, parents or wider family members. I'm a relatively young parent with no reason to suppose I'd be badly affected, and so I don't think my kids getting it in school and giving it to me constitutes the most significant risk here. But yeah, of course the risk isn't primarily to the kids. That's a given.

What’s the actual harm in photos that might reassure anxious parents? Why are people getting worked up about this

Because the photos don't bear any relation to reality. Children are not going to be sitting spaced out in class or in the lunch hall. No teacher is going to be wearing PPE and taking a child's temperature at the gate. That isn't going to happen, and it's a direct lie which won't reassure anyone. People are getting "worked up" because all other workplaces are required to be "Covid Secure", but schools aren't and can't be. Teachers and parents and grandparents who are ECV are frightened for their lives.

I think you’ll find the majority of parents/carers know this so it doesn’t need to be explicitly stated

Dude! The country voted Tory twice, for Brexit, and half the country has an IQ less than 100. That's why 3 word slogans work.

Some schools ARE putting safe and appropriate measures in (my local primary is) so why is it bad to show this?

Because what's happening in your local primary is irrelevant. Schools will follow guidance to the best of their abilities, but hands are tied by teacher numbers, classroom sizes, numbers of toilets etc.

What’s the actual harm in photos that might reassure anxious parents lying to the population? Why are people getting worked up about this, it works well in totalitarian states.

I know school is a very difficult one. We need to have children in school and making it 100% safe is impossible. But the government could have done more. It has done absolutely nothing!! I go into shops and restaurants and they have anti bac stations around etc.. When I go back to work next week we will have no extra hygiene measures in place. Still one block of 3 toilets for the whole of KS1 and one block of 3 toilets for the whole of KS2!! Some classrooms have sinks for handwashing, some don't.

Yes OP this infuriated me too. That and the government implying the children will be socially distanced once they return and schools will be Covid safe, which isn’t true as it’s basically the same except now they wear masks in communal areas.

www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint/#/Complaint

Just watching bbc and they are still harping on about very low harm to children, no mention of parents. Get another expert and get them to read out the party line again

@StealthPolarBear

What I want to know is what happened to these alert levels which were announced with great fanfare? Were they just a bit of a gimmick the government is now hoping we'll all forget about?

Oh yes! I'd forgotten about them.

Didn't we get to 3?

I would have thought we are down to 1 now.

But if they had kept that going with clear boundaries perhaps people could have seen and got on board a bit more with their rationale.

Children are not going to be sitting spaced out in class or in the lunch hall. No teacher is going to be wearing PPE and taking a child's temperature at the gate.

They will be eating their packed lunch in their classroom instead it seems.

What PPE would teachers like to be wearing?

Are schools banned from taking temperatures out of interest?