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Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 16

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/08/2020 18:44

Welcome to thread 16 of the daily updates

Resource links:

Uk dashboard deaths, cases, hospitals, tests - 4 nations, English regions & LAs
MSAO Map of English cases
[[https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/909430/Contain_framework_lower_tier_local_authority__14_August_2020.pdf
Slides & data UK govt pressers
UK added daily by PHE & DHSC
R estimates UK & English regions
PHE Surveillance report infections & watchlists every Thursday
ONS England infection surveillance reports
ONS UK death stats released each Tuesday
ECDC rolling 14-day incidence EEA & UK
Daily ECDC country detail UK
WHO dashboard
Worldometer UK page
Plot FT graphs compare countries deaths, cases, raw / million pop
Covidly.com world summary & graphs
Plot COVID Graphs Our World in Data test positivity etc

We welcome factual, data driven, and civil discussions from all contributors 📈 📉 📊 👍

OP posts:
Thread gallery
90
NeurotrashWarrior · 03/09/2020 15:58

South of the Tyne is a different nhs area I think.

It's Northumberland and Newcastle areas that may work together.

SallySeven · 03/09/2020 15:59

Yes you'd have to be committed and with low symptoms, lol.

Just racking my brains really.

Penrith was the available location mentioned in the case I heard of!

IloveJKRowling · 03/09/2020 16:02

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-06067-8?fbclid=IwAR2XQX0OQrWJorwQxVTxV1L9XX8Q5YTiwy8a2kzgDFDgTUG8SFj_YwrNTyg

Apols if already posted - but could this explain the lower death rate too as countries have more rules on wearing masks in public? Milder cases linked to mask wearing? It seems to make logical sense.

Nellodee · 03/09/2020 16:18

[quote MRex]@Nellodee - it is not possible to confirm how many household members get infected, because testing at the wrong time can deliver false negatives, particularly in asymptomatic people. Previous studies have all shown similarly much smaller infection risk for children than for adults, I'd personally put less faith in them than antibody studies because of false negative results and the difficulty of knowing who was infected first, but here you go: www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/latest-evidence/transmission
-Age-stratified analysis showed that the secondary attack rate in symptomatic children was 4.7% compared with 17.1% in adults (≥ 20 years of age) [56], and that the probability of infection in children was 0.26 times lower (95%CI 0.13-0.54) than in elderly people (≥ 60 years of age) [57].-

A raft of studies have said from day 1 that children are less likely to be infected, less symptomatic and less likely to transmit the virus. Children under 11 particularly that's the case; teenagers and young adults slightly more likely to catch and transmit the virus, but still less likely than older adults. Time and again each study comes to the same conclusions. Yet you continually want to refute them. Why?[/quote]
I did not make any assertion on whether or not children were less likely to be infected than adults. I said that the specific evidence you were providing to say that children were infected less than adults didn't show that at all. You haven't discussed the faults I brought up with your previous argument, you've just thrown a load of other data at me that I'm not contesting.

HoldingTight · 03/09/2020 17:04

"By Friday no-one should be asked to travel more than 75 miles to get a test."

75 miles!!

Coronavirus: Testing boss 'very sorry' for shortages www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53990068

Augustbreeze · 03/09/2020 17:41

@littleowl1 I love your Covid Messenger, but would really appreciate a little graph in the "How quickly is the infection rate changing in my area?" section, to show eg the previous 7 days, or longer, too. So you can see longer term trend.

whatsnext2 · 03/09/2020 17:56

Editorial summarising problems with seroprevalence studies, especially in mild or asymptomatic cases:

www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3364

herecomesthsun · 03/09/2020 18:00

[quote HoldingTight]"By Friday no-one should be asked to travel more than 75 miles to get a test."

75 miles!!

Coronavirus: Testing boss 'very sorry' for shortages www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53990068[/quote]
Wouldn't this distribute virus around the 150 miles, should an infected person need to stop for a pee, or travel on public transport, or their car breaks down & etc.?

itsgettingweird · 03/09/2020 18:43

@sirfredfredgeorge

As well as saving lives, countries controlling the outbreak effectively may have adopted the best economic strategy too

The economy in every country has been hit irrespective of the measures they took, the amount of damage is much more correlated with the type of economy - service and tourism hit much more than industrial export countries. So of course UK and Spain are hit much harder and Taiwan and South Korea in economic terms, there were no measures that the UK or Spain could have taken that would have led to similar economic performance.

Agree. I know your government are talking about a lot more tech and building jobs being created so it makes sense they are trying to change our economy. Which hopefully means we'll be less reliant on tourism.
Cedilla · 03/09/2020 18:50

I’m just watching the local news (South-East) and when they made a dummy booking from London to try and verify these reports, the nearest centre they were directed to was in Wales - 180 miles away (one way).

PatriciaHolm · 03/09/2020 19:03

@Cedilla

I’m just watching the local news (South-East) and when they made a dummy booking from London to try and verify these reports, the nearest centre they were directed to was in Wales - 180 miles away (one way).
I had this the other day, but a couple of hours later my local (1m away) centre was there and had lots of availability - and the website does say keep trying...
whatsnext2 · 03/09/2020 19:03

@Cedilla

I’m just watching the local news (South-East) and when they made a dummy booking from London to try and verify these reports, the nearest centre they were directed to was in Wales - 180 miles away (one way).
If one was cynical one might speculate that this is a good way to reduce case numbers.
Cedilla · 03/09/2020 19:12

It certainly gave me pause. I’ve had two tests (thanks to the Zoe app) but the last one was a couple of months ago and I was sent to a test centre about 10 miles away, which was fine. I was the only person there, too.

BestOption · 03/09/2020 19:16

[quote littleowl1]@cathyandclare

Hi Cathy, yes I have considered including case numbers per 100,000. In fact its been an ongoing internal debate. Here are my thoughts.

In lots of scenarios I prefer cases per 100,000. But I also think there is a tendency to assume that rebasing the data per 100,000 somehow makes areas (and data) comparable. And that it somehow makes all areas comparable. Which I don't agree with.

It's probably a very long and boring post to go into all the details but I will touch on a few elements.

I think when we talk about our local areas, areas we are familiar with, the absolute number of cases is more valuable.

If you are familiar with an area (eg where you live), you are familiar with the demographic, the population density, you have a general and innate sense of what the fabric of your community is like. You have an awareness of household size, ethnicity, of how spread out homes are, of how people socialise and how they live and intermingle day-to-day. Of how likely the community is likely to comply with safety guidance. All of these elements effect covid transmission rates and covid risk.

And when you read the absolute number of cases in your area, you are aware of all these elements and that absolute number means something to you; you naturally interpret it on the back of all the knowledge you have about your area.

Rebasing per 100,000 of population, i feel, risks people thinking that it is the only way to think about case numbers and the only way to think about risk. And that it is somehow a more authoritative way to assess risk. Which is not always true.

The fabric of your area and community has a huge bearing on what case numbers mean and what risk they present.

For example, the following two hypothetical scenarios have the same case rate per 100,000 but the local risk is very different:

  1. 50 cases per 100K in a large, remote, rural area where houses are spread out massively and average occupants per household is low

  2. 50 cases per 100k in a built up, high rise, incredibly dense population area of inner London - a geographically tiny area with a prevalence of high rise apartment block buildings and people living cheek by jowl where average occupants per household is high

Same case rate per 100k. Very different risk though.

So I find, when comparing/discussing areas I don't know much about, per 100,000 of population is a valuable rebasing tool to give a quick-and-dirty side-by-side comparison.

But when thinking about areas I know something about, then I prefer absolute numbers; I find them more valuable. I feel I lose some of their intrinsic value by rebasing them.

On that note, I think there is an argument for including the per 100k of pop in the top 10 table in the daily email alerts as there will undoubtedly be areas in there unfamiliar to recipients. So, yes actually, I will add that to my to do list. It might take a week or two though.

I would love to hear your thoughts. It is something I have been asked and I may change my mind in the future, or maybe add it at the bottom below all the absolute numbers.

Its an ongoing consideration.

Do you think ppl would prefer per 100K for their local area?[/quote]
I agree with your reasoning! Whilst per 100,000 makes it easier to compare, comparisons don't do individuals much good. It's sadly/guiltily reassuring to be in a lower per 100,000 area, but it doesn't actually mean much. Whereas knowing there have been 7 new cases this week does

I get your morning updates, which are brilliant, thank you!

My issue is that where I live is on a point where several areas meet and the one I'm officially in, the vast majority of the population is miles away from me, whereas I'm on the boarder of several others. I wish I could do one by post code! (But I know that's not how you get your source info & im very grateful for the ones you do do!!)

HoldingTight · 03/09/2020 19:26

I keep popping back to see comment on today's numbers... (quite high in England?)

BigChocFrenzy · 03/09/2020 19:34

@alreadytaken

Cathyandclare a lot was posted in one of these threads early on re vitamin D, I wont repeat it all. The intervention studies are, as far as I know, not happening in this country. However there are several elsewhere. BigChocFrenzy "if I should get seriously ill, I'd expect actual proven meds - if any - not just more vitamins" - a misunderstanding of how an intervention study would work. It's normal clinical care + vitamin D v normal clinical care + placebo.
... I hadn't thought I would be in a study, but I wouldn't object so long as standard meds would continue
OP posts:
NeurotrashWarrior · 03/09/2020 19:37

@littleowl1 South Shields is an area to keep an eye on. Cases started jumping hugely in the last two weeks.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/09/2020 19:42

For a full perspective, one needs both cases / 100,000 and absolute numbers of case

OP posts:
NeurotrashWarrior · 03/09/2020 19:43

46 cases per 100,000

Technically south Tyneside.

EducatingArti · 03/09/2020 20:02

Personally, I would prefer to know numbers per 100k as well as absolute numbers. I'm in greater Manchester with very similar population density in different parts but need to know how rates are in different areas to risk assess how sensible it is to teach my tutees face to face rather than remotely!

alreadytaken · 03/09/2020 20:16

Numbers today are high - and they've being growing for a while now. Up until now older people have been doing an excellent job of staying away from infection. Unfortunately the surveillance data suggests that is beginning to be less effective in the North West, schools going back is a dangerous time for grandparents who provide childcare and universities returning are worrying for anyone in a university town, although students often mix largely with other students.

However there are some areas where things have improved a lot - Leicester and Swindon are looking better, for example. Some areas - like Ashford, Canterbury, Dorset, West Devon - are continuing to stay very low.

MarshaBradyo · 03/09/2020 20:18

Littleowl I really like your service. It’s simple and easy to get and one of the best bits of info out there in terms of immediacy.

I feel I can handle both without losing that simplicity. And I dislike clutter but I think it would be really useful.

Whether you make one more prominent is up to you, but again making all same weighting of importance might be better visually, not sure. See how it looks.

littleowl1 · 03/09/2020 20:22

@MarshaBradyo That’s great to hear. Thank you for the feedback

@NeurotrashWarrior interesting I will take a look

littleowl1 · 03/09/2020 20:23

@Augustbreeze nice tip August. I will have a think. Interestingly including images is harder than it sounds. I’m rebuilding the backend in coming weeks so it might be easier then once I have upgraded.

Augustbreeze · 03/09/2020 21:17

Ok I suppose the next best thing to a graph would be a table of the figures for the last 7/14/21 days?

The PP who says they're on a border - you do know you can register for alerts for up to 5 different areas? (Hope that's correct @littleowl1!)