if so many people are about to be made redundant in the country, why can't experienced individuals be fast tracked as teachers?

[elmouno]

Yes, I know teachers require different types of certification. But in these pressing times, if we have people being made redundant in every industry, why can't they be placed as extra teachers so we can get class sizes smaller? For example, if someone is already a scientist with work experience in biology, chemistry, etc surely they will be able to teach it at secondary level? Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech? HR or former project managers could teach English? Bankers teaching certain maths? I don't know but I think it is really important that we get more teachers (of course they would have to pass a background check). I mean perhaps we need to get more creative with curriculum and scrap the tests for now? Perhaps children who want to get into certain universities can take a SAT test like they do in America?

It just seems a shame that we have so many people being made redundant and we have such a pressing need to make more bubbles. Large bubbles imo, won't work. What will happen to keyworkers when their bubbles pop? It doesn't make sense to me. The only answer is to build more schools and have more teachers.

@IncludeWomenInTheSequel

Agree!

I can't get into post grad English Teaching because in 1995 I got a C instead of a B in Maths.

Since then I've gained an Economics degree, become and editor and an author, but hey! That Maths qualification was really the only thing that mattered.

You need to look into this again then if you actually want to teach, the minimum requirement is a grade c/4 and has been ever since I trained to teach back in the late 90's

You’re allowed to resit, bump that C to a B and unlock the job of your dreams.

[quote elmouno]@Triangularbubble

I do have children and that's why I want a smaller bubble.

I think if I sent my 4 year old to be taught on a part time basis by Susan, a former flight attendant with childcare experience who had been trained by Liz, a teacher with years of experience who was with her in the room for the first few months, then I would be fine with that. It really depends on the person.[/quote]
But if Susan and Liz are in the room together for the first few months, they will have to teach all the children in that class - so the bubble won't be any smaller.

Again, this is how teacher training already works.

Not RTFT.

Teaching is a skill.

Separate from having the knowledge.

I don't know if op has grasped that on a long thread but hope so.

Reminds me of when govt wanted to fast track people out of the armed forces into teaching. Erm.

I see where you are coming from OP but being knowledgable on a subject is different to being able to teach this knowledge. You have say 30 kids in a class in primary (which i teach). Each will have a different learning style that you have to plan for. On top of that they will be varying levels of ability. So while the higher group can pick things up quickly, the lowers won't. Your teaching needs to incorporate this in a way which will capture the classes whole attention and interest. Then you have the planning, the personalised individual action plans, your targets to name a few. Works out at 60 hour weeks, seven days. You may see your friend for a coffee once a month, twice if you are lucky. If you have kids, you'll be working till 6 when the school closes from 8 in the morning, go home, starve off another days worth of guilt by playing with them for an hour or two and put them to bed, then work till or past midnight to get everything done. Schools funding comes from their results. Sad but true.

Schools would hire someone on their ability to teach for this exact reason, so Tim, who has qualified and worked in classical music and has ten years worth of experience in this sector, would not be allowed to come and teach music because while he knows about classical music and working in that sector, he has no syllibus knowledge nor any skills that indicate he can lead the GCSE year to a high pass rate. Which would affect their funding, their standing with ofstead if this was across the board, and possible shutting down of said school. That is if they last the year, which I would seriously doubt.

The only way I could see this working is if you were in an independant school whos pupils were all naturally academic. Even then you would need knowledge of syllibus, the curriculum, an understanding of how to teach and what needs to be covered to hit the targets to bring the results up to where the government think they should be.

So sorry but it wouldn't work.

@Frlrlrubert

Ok, let's say Liz is responsible for training Susan and Grace. Grace for this example has a degree in History but has experience with children because she used to work in a soft play that has now permanently closed.

Kids come to school for the first few months part time. Let's keep the bubble as small as possible.

Liz teaches on Monday, Grace and Susan watch to imitate this for the "their" bubbles throughout the week with one day for the lesson and the next day to go over the curriculum. So Liz on Monday, then Grace on Tuesday (Reviews Monday lesson for next bubble), Wednesday, and then Susan on Thursday (Reviews Monday lesson), Friday.

After a few months Susan and Grace would be ready for ten students each but would still follow up with Liz on any concerns. Students could be full time at this point. Liz, Susan, and Grace would be a teacher team at the "new" school in a repurposed building. Liz would become head teacher of the new smaller school and get paid a head teacher's salary.

Sounds perfect.

Now just to convince the government that schools can be 1/3rd part time until Xmas with no online learning component (after all, Susan won't have time for that), while we train two teachers for every one we have and build/repurpose so we have triple the classroom space.

Also, about 5 times the wages bill going forward? At least.

I assume we're going to delay exams/shift the school year since children will have lost another 10 weeks of learning?

Shame I don't have Gav and BoJo's numbers, I'm sure they'd agree it's an excellent plan.

Have you ever tried teaching in any kind of formal situation, op?

Not talking about training people at work etc, but teaching in a formal context.

Jesus Christ...a soft play worker = enough experience working with children to be a teacher. Yes, that's what the look for...experience in a soft play centre!!

Lol well I know this is all unlikely to happen, but I just dislike when people say nothing better is possible then pretending that we will have all these new social distancing rules in schools and nothing bad will happen. I would rather minimise risk. I also hope that people stop falling for the austerity lie. There is money. There is money to bail out huge corporations and unfortunately a lot will still go under. It's a much better investment to retrain people so that they can be employed. I really feel bad for the people being made redundant who are searching for a job at the moment. I also feel for the teachers who don't want to be in an overstuffed building with no protection. If we keep saying that everything is impossible, it gives the people in charge permission to do the least and not be blamed for it.

I've joined the thread late but given a brief scroll your ideas seem untenable.

Not least that anyone with knowledge in an area can teach. They can't. It's a skill.

@NiceGerbil Yes, I was responsible for teaching all ages. I had 2 weeks of training and had 4-5 different classes every weekday. This was in Japan.

You had a desire to teach and you chose to do that.

My friend did similar- TEFL type thing, right?

The idea that anyone can teach is incorrect. You chose to do TEFL or whatever. Many people would never do that, irrespective of their knowledge.

And this is about children's whole futures.

Their whole education.

You seem to be underestimating what teachers do. I don't know why do many people do that.

I think teaching will change tbh.

During lockdown, parents IF they had the time, can teach primary subjects fairly easily given the amout of resources now available online. Many could also teach other people's kids if they were trained up to do so.

The primary teachers could then retrain to teach secondary school subjects which is where the bigger need will be......

I had 2 weeks of training and had 4-5 different classes every weekday.

I bet you closely followed a scheme and textbook. And also were a bit shit at it.

You’ll claim you weren’t, but new teachers are always a bit shit.

@NiceGerbil yes, it was TEFL. It was not easy, but I think it helped that my class sizes were not as large as 30 students at once.

As far as the education, GCSEs have got to be scrapped. We already have a precedent where they have now been based on teacher's predictions. School should be on the basis of the grade that is given by a teacher and if a university is competitive enough to request a test for a specific subject, then there are ways of getting that done already. We might need to add more subjects as well in secondary, give students a chance to learn trades while they are there. If someone finds that they are destined to be an electrician, a carpenter, etc then we should allow them to take those kinds of subjects.

Where are these new teachers going to do their teaching when so many schools are short of space? Where is their pay coming from? That would be a problem even if having random adults taking on teaching roles wasn’t.

@noblegiraffe

I only had a textbook for the children, not the adults. I had to create lessons completely myself for the adults and for the children, I had to create activities to reinforce the lesson.

We might need to add more subjects as well in secondary, give students a chance to learn trades while they are there. If someone finds that they are destined to be an electrician, a carpenter, etc then we should allow them to take those kinds of subjects.

This is an excellent idea depending on how it is done. They do this in other countries e.g. Germany but unfortunately they tend to separate the kids into academic and non academic at too young an age. If a new subject could be created to incorporate technical/trade skills, it would remove the idea that a degree is the absolute minimum needed.

Then you will have been really shit at it.

@noblegiraffe well people paid privately for it, and they do that at schools throughout the country so they must have seen a benefit.

OP I love your optimism, but it all boils down to one thing.

There is no money.

Most schools cant afford gluesticks, never mind new teachers and buildings.

I hadn't heard of a teacher shortage or seen ads looking for them so why would anyone shift career if no demand ! I used to do a bit of agency work but seems very quiet.

I hadn't heard of a teacher shortage or seen ads looking for them

What? The bursaries for training to teach are bigger than what you’d earn as a teacher in some subjects, so desperate they are.