if so many people are about to be made redundant in the country, why can't experienced individuals be fast tracked as teachers?

[elmouno]

Yes, I know teachers require different types of certification. But in these pressing times, if we have people being made redundant in every industry, why can't they be placed as extra teachers so we can get class sizes smaller? For example, if someone is already a scientist with work experience in biology, chemistry, etc surely they will be able to teach it at secondary level? Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech? HR or former project managers could teach English? Bankers teaching certain maths? I don't know but I think it is really important that we get more teachers (of course they would have to pass a background check). I mean perhaps we need to get more creative with curriculum and scrap the tests for now? Perhaps children who want to get into certain universities can take a SAT test like they do in America?

It just seems a shame that we have so many people being made redundant and we have such a pressing need to make more bubbles. Large bubbles imo, won't work. What will happen to keyworkers when their bubbles pop? It doesn't make sense to me. The only answer is to build more schools and have more teachers.

[Peregrina]

As far as I know, those immediate post war teachers weren't untrained, I think they just made more training places available. I think a teaching certificate was a two year course then anyway.

[echt]

@echt I’m looking for the clicks? You realise that term means looking for clicks on your own website/ YouTube in order to make money? You can’t even click through on a Mumsnet post? I’m just staying my opinion. That it doesn’t match you’re doesn’t make it invalid. Don’t they teach you that in teaching?

Metaphor.

[cantkeepawayforever]

Peregrina, until well after the war I don't think graduates needed to do any specific teacher training? Obviously there were teacher training courses that were instead of university - which grew into the more modern BEd. I come from a family of teachers and while some of them [now in their late 70s / early 80s] did teacher training courses instead of going to university, those who went to university just went straight into teaching posts, rather than doing any specific training to teach. I don't know, overall, what the balance was - since going to university was so much rarer, the 'graduate straight in to teaching' route may have been fairly small, whereas thinking of how many towns have 'the old teacher training college' now repurposed as flats or grown into a university, that may have been by far the commoner route.

[Nellodee]

After the war, teachers maintained discipline by caning their students. Behaviour management - not such an issue. I don't think the same techniques would go down quite so well now.

[SnuggyBuggy]

Also with the lower leaving age I bet teachers weren't expected to do as much with the no hopers as they are now

[Peregrina]

Peregrina, until well after the war I don't think graduates needed to do any specific teacher training?

Indeed so. I graduated in 1973 and we were the last year to be able to go and teach in Secondary schools without having done a teacher training course. So some of my friends did that. You had to do a two year probationary period from what I recall. I have lost touch with people, but one of them definitely went on to make a career in teaching - the others I am pretty sure only gave it a few years at most. One gave it a term.

For primary it had been stopped a couple of years before that, from what I remember.

B Eds seemed to start up in about 1969 or thereabouts. I think it was mostly Grammar schools which took the graduates who hadn't trained as teachers, and the primary and secondary moderns took the College trained people.

I think we had a couple of teachers who had been in the War and trained via the scheme to encourage people into teaching, and they were pretty good, but I suspect that the useless ones had given up long before. In fact thinking about it, one was very good, he taught maths and used to invent maths games, some of which got marketed and could be seen in classrooms.

[YinuCeatleAyru]

even after 1973 you could still skip the Teacher Training course if you had a Masters degree. my mum became a teacher in the mid 1980s with no teaching qualification but she had an MA and that meant she was allowed. The change in the 70s just removed the privilege from those with only a Bachelor degree.

[Peregrina]

I didn't know that Yinu - I only knew about people with Bachelor degrees because it affected friends personally.

[Cloudburstagain]

Well my school will have a handful of “teachers” this academic year who have no more than a degree. They have no experience of teaching, no training, no qualifications, they will learn on the job with a reduced timetable. However, every lesson will be planned for them by somebody else - so easy??! Cheaper than another year of study and debt for them, and cheap for schools.

Would I want my GCSE maths teacher for my dd to be someone who has never taught, or marked a gcse exam paper, or knew the syllabus during a pandemic? I know my own answer,

[BeingATwatItsABingThing]

@Cloudburstagain

Well my school will have a handful of “teachers” this academic year who have no more than a degree. They have no experience of teaching, no training, no qualifications, they will learn on the job with a reduced timetable. However, every lesson will be planned for them by somebody else - so easy??! Cheaper than another year of study and debt for them, and cheap for schools.

Would I want my GCSE maths teacher for my dd to be someone who has never taught, or marked a gcse exam paper, or knew the syllabus during a pandemic? I know my own answer,

This year more than any in recent times is the year children desperately need good teachers. They’ve had months off and it will take a lot to get them back to where they were let alone where they should be by the end of the year.

My DD is going into Y2 and I would be seriously hacked off if the school chose paying someone significantly less because they weren’t actually trained in any way to teach. NQTs are different. They have done some training and now just need help implementing it with their own class.

[RollercoasterRaver]

I, too, wonder why HR was the best you could come up with for English!!

I think of all roles, HR may current be safe (and a bit snowed under).

I'm HR and have lost my job! Interestingly (slight side point) a lot of HR have lost their jobs so they're just as vulnerable. 300+ applicants for a role I fancied on LinkedIn. I didn't even bother to apply.

I have a good grasp on English and got As at school but wouldn't at all think I could teach it! Agree with @motherrunner....

I’ve been an English teacher for 20 years. Are you suggesting anyone who can read or write can teach my subject? Please some insult me.

OP you are especially naive in your thinking on this. Teaching is such a skilled job and people can't just slot into it as is your thinking.

[cantkeepawayforever]

@YinuCeatleAyru

even after 1973 you could still skip the Teacher Training course if you had a Masters degree. my mum became a teacher in the mid 1980s with no teaching qualification but she had an MA and that meant she was allowed. The change in the 70s just removed the privilege from those with only a Bachelor degree.

Tongue in cheek here - a proper MA or an Oxbridge 'just live for a few more years' MA?

My mum also taught, but started her career in the 1960s, so just went straight from her (Oxbridge) degree.