if so many people are about to be made redundant in the country, why can't experienced individuals be fast tracked as teachers?

[elmouno]

Yes, I know teachers require different types of certification. But in these pressing times, if we have people being made redundant in every industry, why can't they be placed as extra teachers so we can get class sizes smaller? For example, if someone is already a scientist with work experience in biology, chemistry, etc surely they will be able to teach it at secondary level? Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech? HR or former project managers could teach English? Bankers teaching certain maths? I don't know but I think it is really important that we get more teachers (of course they would have to pass a background check). I mean perhaps we need to get more creative with curriculum and scrap the tests for now? Perhaps children who want to get into certain universities can take a SAT test like they do in America?

It just seems a shame that we have so many people being made redundant and we have such a pressing need to make more bubbles. Large bubbles imo, won't work. What will happen to keyworkers when their bubbles pop? It doesn't make sense to me. The only answer is to build more schools and have more teachers.

Some of the schools in our area (primaries) have banners up at the moment saying “train as a teacher while working here” with a phone number.

@MrsHamlet

That’s so frustrating! It was almost an inevitability that he would fail if they didn’t want experience or bother seeing them teach first. He couldn’t have known whether or not he would enjoy teaching.

I did a pre-teaching course at college. As part of that, I went into a school for a morning a week and took small groups and even taught a couple of lessons (badly I’m sure!). That course showed me whether or not I really wanted to do a teaching degree. My degree was the hardest three years of my life. I went to schools where I was clearly a complete nuisance to have around and they made no effort to hide that. In those three years, I went to one school that I loved. My final placement was miserable and it was only through sheer determination that I didn’t give up. If I hadn’t have loved my experience before my degree and the one placement in my second year that made me feel valued, I would have given up.

As pp said, I would have thought through lockdown people would have learned that teaching isn't that easy.

It's certainly not as easy as knowing a subject well. Many home educators before lockdown discuss how the topics we find easiest are often the ones we find hardest to teach our kids. I've heard from others that when things come easily to us, it's hard to see why someone else doesn't get it and how to come it from a different angle. On topics we struggled with in school and life, it's easier to see why someone else might go wrong (or to use a programme with everything in it from the start when you'll know you need it). That's why there are so many schools of thought on how to teach kids and how to teachers to teach kids. It's not just passing information down.

There are already multiple paths to becoming a teacher if someone wants to - the issue is the incentives to do so - social, financial, and otherwise - are really lacking, even with unemployment levels rising.

The OP should be given this:

daffodil ad infinitum.

daffodil

Try again:

Also, my DDs' school is currently temporarily housed in a large once abandoned building (I think it used to belong to Network Rail, it was something to do with railways. It's now owned by the DoE).

They were using half of it, but due to the COVID and delays, they've had to expand into the other half for this autumn. Refitting the second half building to fit safety requirements and equipment needed for school has taken months, still being finalized now with Y7s to start next week. It's not as easy as just putting in some walls and this school is very lucky in that because it's a new school with a new building built, they have some budget for this new equipment. Many schools aren't in that position.

Yeah, we may need to think outside of the box to fix what's broken, but right now the structures that are broken make it really difficult to do so in any realistic way.

@echt @Aragog

Someone claimed this just a few posts above mine! But you’re right. It’s never ever happened on Mumsnet.....

Teaching is my second / third career. Although my first career was in something generally considered 'hard', and my second was probably most people's definition of 'a successful career in which people generally work very hard', I have NEVER worked as hard as I do as a teacher

@Fallowdeerhunter

It’s funny because on Mumsnet every teacher claims they work harder than anyone ever ever in any profession ever ever.

You say every teacher here. You are able to find one quote that backs your argument. Even that quote is a little dubious because that poster is saying that they work harder in teaching than they did in previous roles. They didn’t say they work harder than anyone else ever has.

I work hard as a teacher. Do I think other people work just as hard or harder than me? Of course I do. Do I think other people work less hard than I do? Yes. This is the same for everyone though.

The only people I know in teaching who have a good work life balance are those who are promoted. Promotion = less teaching time and apart from pastoral responsibilities they don't actually have as much to do. Ours delegate most of it in the name of cpd for those beneath them*

Haha! You have no idea obviously. Can't decide if I was a really good headteacher or really rubbish. Did I fill my 14 hour days doing things that I could have asked someone else to do?

it's a new school with a new building built, they have some budget for this new equipment. Many schools aren't in that position

You are so right, two out of three schools in my LA have a deficit budget (pre COVID)) and have had to put plans in place to make savings (staff cuts) to correct this.

@AdelaidePlace

it's a new school with a new building built, they have some budget for this new equipment. Many schools aren't in that position

You are so right, two out of three schools in my LA have a deficit budget (pre COVID)) and have had to put plans in place to make savings (staff cuts) to correct this.

This has been shared on MN before but this website shows the cuts that schools have faced. You can search for specific schools and they’ll break it down for you.

schoolcuts.org.uk/

I’ve attached the losses for my school. OP, tell me again how we’re meant to afford to at least triple our staff with no money!

Fallowdeerhunter and elmuono are cynical teacher bashers looking for the clicks.

Give them

[quote Fallowdeerhunter]**@echt* @Aragog*

Someone claimed this just a few posts above mine! But you’re right. It’s never ever happened on Mumsnet.....

Teaching is my second / third career. Although my first career was in something generally considered 'hard', and my second was probably most people's definition of 'a successful career in which people generally work very hard', I have NEVER worked as hard as I do as a teacher[/quote]
That's not an example of every single teacher saying that teaching is harder than every job ever!
That's one teacher saying they work harder in teaching than in their previous 2 careers.

What we say is that we work hard and we work long hours. We say it because it's true!

Of course some jobs are harder, for example I personally couldn't cope as a police officer, a paramedic or fire fighter, they could pay £500k a year and I still couldn't do it, the idea of some of the things that they might encounter are just horrific to me.
The issue we have is that people keep insisting how easy teaching is, how lazy and incompetent we all are, without having any experience of the job at all.

@echt I’m looking for the clicks? You realise that term means looking for clicks on your own website/ YouTube in order to make money? You can’t even click through on a Mumsnet post? I’m just staying my opinion. That it doesn’t match you’re doesn’t make it invalid. Don’t they teach you that in teaching?

Nope, but they do teach us basic grammar .

@Piggywaspushed

Nope, but they do teach us basic grammar .

Game, set and match to Piggy

@AdelaidePlace

The only people I know in teaching who have a good work life balance are those who are promoted. Promotion = less teaching time and apart from pastoral responsibilities they don't actually have as much to do. Ours delegate most of it in the name of cpd for those beneath them*

Haha! You have no idea obviously. Can't decide if I was a really good headteacher or really rubbish. Did I fill my 14 hour days doing things that I could have asked someone else to do?

Sorry Adelaide, I meant heads of subject, I know our SLT work stupid hours and they definitely earn their extra money and time. Especially this year, think they deserve double time. Likewise any teacher heads of year (realise there's not many left).

By contrast every head of department I've worked for has done pretty much 9-5, made a point of never taking any work home and timetabled themselves mostly KS5.

As I said, my wife works in the private sector. She makes bespoke products. At the level of management analogous to SLT they are expected to make less products (so the equivalent of a reduced timetable) and the big boss, like the head doesn't have to make anything. But at her level, head of department, she has to make the same amount of product as everyone beneath her, as well as doing all the line management and stock management, maintenance of equipment etc which is considerable. Pre teaching I had a similar level of responsibility in a different industry and the same applied.

Apologies if I've offended you, I didn't mean to, I've just always been confused about the disparity between this and the private sector.

Just to clarify - as the originator of the disputed post - of course others work harder in their jobs than I do as a teacher.

All I meant was that public perception of 'jobs where you have to work hard', and the reality of which jobs ACTUALLY require you to work hard, are out of step, in my personal experience.

Thanks being, I see school budgets (500 schools) at first hand in my role, huge issues.

count no offence taken, I just know how hard headship is with such a lot of pressure.

@AdelaidePlace

I think seeing all of the school budgets would depress me too much. Just seeing it for my school makes me so angry. Why do the children not matter? Why are more people not doing or saying anything about it? The only time they are interested in their child’s education is when it impacts on them and the childcare the school provides. If they genuinely cared about the vulnerable children, they’d have said something before now!

They did this after ww2. Shorter teacher training courses for anyone who wanted to do it. Turned out quite good by all accounts.

Yes, because people had gone through the horrors of war and had the will to build a better society. The support was there. Think of Attlee's Government and what they achieved, and think of the current Government led by a liar and a cheat who has promoted a bunch of incompetents to his Cabinet. That's the difference.

As I said earlier, getting people onto training is really not the major issue. Getting them to actually take a job and stay in it, is. You can argue 'til the cows come home about how hard the job is or is not, but something is making people leave the job, in large numbers and until that's fixed, there will be a problem. Alongside funding of course.

But did you have to do all that planning every lesson with differentiation for 30+ kids including SEN, personalised marking and all that extra training in the 1940s? Teaching seems to have got a lot harder and we expect more of teachers.

People are always quick to mention market forces for private sector jobs, regarding pay and conditions. Comparing teaching with other jobs and talking about holidays is irrelevant. If many people won't stay in the job, or even start it after training, there's a problem.