if so many people are about to be made redundant in the country, why can't experienced individuals be fast tracked as teachers?

[elmouno]

Yes, I know teachers require different types of certification. But in these pressing times, if we have people being made redundant in every industry, why can't they be placed as extra teachers so we can get class sizes smaller? For example, if someone is already a scientist with work experience in biology, chemistry, etc surely they will be able to teach it at secondary level? Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech? HR or former project managers could teach English? Bankers teaching certain maths? I don't know but I think it is really important that we get more teachers (of course they would have to pass a background check). I mean perhaps we need to get more creative with curriculum and scrap the tests for now? Perhaps children who want to get into certain universities can take a SAT test like they do in America?

It just seems a shame that we have so many people being made redundant and we have such a pressing need to make more bubbles. Large bubbles imo, won't work. What will happen to keyworkers when their bubbles pop? It doesn't make sense to me. The only answer is to build more schools and have more teachers.

I’ve been a teacher for 20 years and this has given me a good chuckle. Looking forward to teaching year 10 science in an old Debenhams store

@Triangularbubble

Do you think every country works with the building structures that the UK has? Of course it looks nicer to have the children in an old school house down the road, but if there are large, empty buildings available, that could make social distancing possible, can we let go a little bit of the vanity? I'm sure it would be funny for kids to end up at the old Toys R Us building or what have you on the school run, but if it keeps everyone safer, is it really that bad? The alternative is everyone just pretend everything will be fine, large bubbles pop, local lockdown is instated, people with keyworker positions are screwed, and people find it unsustainable. Then comes permanent online schooling. Once that kicks in, there will be many redundancies across the education sector. That's how I see it going down with these huge bubbles. All the language at present is PR, with no substance behind it.

Remember all those banker / City types who went into teaching after the 2008 crash? Most of them didn’t last five minutes.

[quote elmouno]@Triangularbubble

Not meaning to be disrespectful, but just wanting to find a way to smaller bubbles so kids can go back safely. Perhaps the teachers who are there could be given training responsibility, and be given raises? I don't know, just putting out ideas.

@WhyNotMe40

I did not know about that, cool.[/quote]
Perhaps teachers could be given training responsibility????? What do you think happens? We already do that! and no we don't get extra time or money to do it, we do it as part of our expected role.

@Pugdoglife

You should get paid more and there should be more time allocated towards it. If there was a massive recruitment, then it would be good to have some more time dedicated towards it. Have the new teacher teach, while the new headteacher watches/trains for a bit on a part time basis until they are comfortable.

[quote elmouno]@Pugdoglife

You should get paid more and there should be more time allocated towards it. If there was a massive recruitment, then it would be good to have some more time dedicated towards it. Have the new teacher teach, while the new headteacher watches/trains for a bit on a part time basis until they are comfortable.[/quote]
This is literally how teacher training works, except the 'new headteacher' is 'just' another class teacher.

How many teachers do you imagine a 'new headteacher' training. How many places can they be in on day one?

Also, secondary teaching is subject specific, you need someone in a similar subject to train you, because teaching English and teaching Science are very different.

I teach religious studies and philosophy to teenagers (comprehensive in grammar area) and they achieve exceptionally high grades, but go on, have a go, must be a complete doddle and anyone can do it.
What are your thoughts on the importance of the Ontological argument for faith?
What conclusions can you draw from the 10 Commandments in Judaism and the Eightfold path in Buddhism? (This is a year 7 question btw, so really, really easy).

Have a and leave off the teacher bashing for a bit eh?

hahaha what a ridiculous post!

“Do you think every country works with the building structures that the UK has? Of course it looks nicer to have the children in an old school house down the road, but if there are large, empty buildings available, that could make social distancing possible, can we let go a little bit of the vanity? I'm sure it would be funny for kids to end up at the old Toys R Us building or what have you on the school run, but if it keeps everyone safer, is it really that bad? “

Vanity? My children’s school is a great practical building and actually ideal for Covid but pretty it isn’t. I want my child in a classroom, with (safe) windows (daylight, ventilation and all that). Furniture, books and equipment. Appropriate toilet facilities. Appropriate staff facilities, including separate toilets. Outdoor space and safe access to it. Safe fire escapes etc. Access for the children with disabilities. At secondary you’d need specialist rooms for science etc. I don’t give a shit what the building looks like but you must have a very odd local branch of Toys ‘r Us if it’s also able to double as a school without very substantial adaptation. And an extraordinary number of them if you really intend on classes of ten and thus tripling school provision!

Oh come on, balloonsintrees you can just find some unemployed bloke from down the pub to teach that stuff. And the good thing is, he’ll still have plenty of free time to spend down the boozer, what with all those holidays and early finishes!

@GCAcademic

Well if someone has a degree to get a job in the field, I'm sure they could be paired with an existing teacher, taught and given a small class of their own. Perhaps retention would be better for these people if they didn't have to manage 30 children?

Perhaps the teachers should stop bashing the people they feel are below them for asking questions.

Genuine question, OP. Have you ever actually had a job?

@daisypond don't be scared, at some point, see if you can get some Time volunteering in a school, this will give you a better idea than the get into teaching events.

I think I have only had 3 complete breakdowns in 17 years (sadly not kidding but have bipolar and BPD as well so not exactly a paragon of sanity)

Out of interest what is your subject?

This is hilarious. I’m a museum curator with a PhD, in no way am I qualified to rock up at the local secondary to teach history. 😂Completely different skill set.

@Triangularbubble

It could be any empty modernised building. I have suggested retail, because many have closed. In one town, an extra school might mean the Toys R Us. In another village, it might be class held in an empty church. A furniture store, a large retail store, whatever can be adapted.

I'm sure someone will be around to tell me that's impossible because its different to what they're used to and different is a dirty word here.

why can't they be placed as extra teachers so we can get class sizes smaller?
-Schools (and government) can’t afford to (don’t want to) pay for the extra teachers
-Schools don’t have spare rooms for the extra teachers to teach in
-Most people aren’t self flagellating or dumb enough to go into something as shit as teaching

The fun thing is, we all know (especially those of us actually in education) that this ‘idea’ is going nowhere, ever. SM pie in the sky and soon to be another forgotten thread.

I've got a drill and a saw. I think I'll leave teaching and become a builder. It can't be that difficult surely.

@GCAcademic i don't know why that's relevant? Actually, I have been a teacher and I was thrown in to it with no experience because I had a degree, which was enough in the country I lived in at the time.

I actually agree that building more schools (or properly repurposing buildings) and training more teachers with the long term goal of reducing class sizes isn't a bad idea.

Unfortunately:

a) we can't do it by next week, and
b) the government won't spend the money

You can't just 'give them a class of their own' on day one. The original teacher would need to be in the room with them, so wouldn't be able to teach their own class. So you can't split the class like that.

Do you have children? Would you genuinely take your reception starter 4 year old for their first day of school next month to a hastily converted Toys r Us/warehouse with no proper windows, one adult sized toilet and no outdoor space? To be taught by Bob, a man who’s just been made redundant from banking. He is good at maths, but has no idea of the eyfs, the National curriculum, pedagogy or classroom management but has done an online course on safeguarding and has a dbs. Doesn’t have an experience working with children or have any of his own. You made sure to buy a house in a good catchment area for a great school, but because they might have to have a few unplanned days off you’re choosing Bob and Toys r Us instead? There’s people on here moaning their child’s first day at school will be ruined because they can’t have a book bag and you think they’ll go for this?!

No one is bashing you or implying that you are beneath them for asking questions, but what you are suggesting is simply what already happens, except we staff don't get time or money for it.
A student teacher gets paired with a mentor and they will observe the experienced teacher, the teacher explains to them all the intricacies of the curriculum, the class, Sen, teaching styles, assessment methods, effective questioning and assessment strategies etc. They will then help the new teacher plan lessons and assist in their delivery. As the trainee becomes more experienced we assist less and enable them to evaluate their own lessons, what worked, what didn't, how could it be improved.
We do that in our breaks, at lunch and after school, we don't get extra pay for it and the government would not be willing to start to pay us now.
The training process is long and hard so certainly not a quick fix to help during a pandemic, by the time the new teachers are ready for their own classes the pandemic will be over.

Also the skills that make a good accountant for example are very different to the skills that make a good maths teacher. I've personally worked with a "banker" who could not cope with the stress of teaching and lasted less than half a term, I've also worked with a local authority education advisor who lasted less than a week in the classroom. I'm not saying other jobs can't be stressful but teaching is quite unique in many ways.

Also as previous posters have stated, noone would work long term for the pay that teachers get if they are qualified and used to earning more, so all that training and effort would go to waste.

@Triangularbubble

I do have children and that's why I want a smaller bubble.

I think if I sent my 4 year old to be taught on a part time basis by Susan, a former flight attendant with childcare experience who had been trained by Liz, a teacher with years of experience who was with her in the room for the first few months, then I would be fine with that. It really depends on the person.

Agree!

I can't get into post grad English Teaching because in 1995 I got a C instead of a B in Maths.

Since then I've gained an Economics degree, become and editor and an author, but hey! That Maths qualification was really the only thing that mattered.