if so many people are about to be made redundant in the country, why can't experienced individuals be fast tracked as teachers?

[elmouno]

Yes, I know teachers require different types of certification. But in these pressing times, if we have people being made redundant in every industry, why can't they be placed as extra teachers so we can get class sizes smaller? For example, if someone is already a scientist with work experience in biology, chemistry, etc surely they will be able to teach it at secondary level? Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech? HR or former project managers could teach English? Bankers teaching certain maths? I don't know but I think it is really important that we get more teachers (of course they would have to pass a background check). I mean perhaps we need to get more creative with curriculum and scrap the tests for now? Perhaps children who want to get into certain universities can take a SAT test like they do in America?

It just seems a shame that we have so many people being made redundant and we have such a pressing need to make more bubbles. Large bubbles imo, won't work. What will happen to keyworkers when their bubbles pop? It doesn't make sense to me. The only answer is to build more schools and have more teachers.

There’s also a shortage of police officers. Maybe we should all start running around trying to arrest people just to help them out..?

Wow!

1 the ability to do does not necessarily mean they have the ability to teach

2 I know PLENTY of bankers, accountants etc that are ONLY good at arithmetic they would in no way be qualified to teach anything but!

3 there is FAR more to teaching especially in these stressful times than purely subject knowledge!! Teachers are also educated and trained in:

Child development
Spotting certain signs of Sen
Spotting abused and neglected children
Identifying learning gaps and addressing them
Engaging and controlling a class full of excitable pre teens/hormonal teens/disengaged late teens...

Not to mention all the highly regulated administration!!

There’s already the option to do a 1 year pgce/pgde here in Scotland if someone already has a RECENTLY GAINED undergraduate degree, that’s fast enough!

Not everyone wants to or is suited to teaching.

Why should the children working towards their school qualifications now be treated less well than those that came before them?

With a long recession looming (not just covid sodding Brexit too) they’re going to need as much help as possible to get qualifications to get a job after leaving education either in this country or another.

The government could stop treating teachers like crap. That would stop teachers leaving the profession and encourage others to join this too! The REASON there’s a shortage and larger classes than ideal is BECAUSE this govt has treated them like shite!

And as an English grad myself where the fuck are you getting this from??

HR or former project managers could teach English?

I don't know well that’s VERY clear!!

I am related to/long term friends with a number of teachers, primary and secondary AND a few regional education coordinators (think I have their job titles correct? Not exactly the same in all regions - Basically they oversee all the teachers in their regions in relation to either a subject area or an area of educational interest eg Sen)

I’m not a teacher myself but have a lot of experience in “youth leader” type roles and given that this was:

Only once a week
Working with children/teens who WANTED to be there and were relatively speaking very good kids!

Still really bloody hard work organising them, teaching them skills etc.

Dd is about to start teacher training but she is doing a 4 year course as she doesn’t have an undergraduate degree.

She has youth leader experience, classroom experience including with children with Sen and behavioural issues and she’s still very apprehensive at the thought of managing a class herself one day.

You have insulted, devalued and mocked this crucial profession and frankly I think you should apologise and possibly request that the thread be deleted - but the latter I really think should be decided by the teachers you have insulted!

Shame on you!

I'm laughing at the precious English teacher comments - romantic literature, jeez give me strength. Er...why?! What do you THINK is taught at gcse and a-level stages and their equivalents in Scotland and Northern Ireland? And even at younger stages? English is the subject through which many other subjects are consolidated and understood! And even some subjects that aren’t “officially” taught and would not be taught if it were up to the govt - like debating skills, assessing a sources reliability and veracity, philosophy, politics...

Benefits defer a bit? wow! Now I REALLY want to know

A what your job is and

B if you’ve EVER claimed benefits especially in the last 5 years?!

Stunning lack of knowledge op which is somewhat ironic?

That's got to be one of the most delusional things i've ever read on MN. or as myself and others by this stage suspect - op is having a lend of us!

and many big box stores will probably stay empty. are you British op? This is an American phrase

I think the repurposing of certain buildings isn’t a terrible idea BUT I’m not an architect or engineer either so I don’t know if that’s feasible within building regulations.

But just off the top of my head you need to consider health and safety, toilet and hand washing provision, lighting, electrical provision, storage for bags/coats etc, WiFi provision...

If the max class size is like 10 students, your child will probably do much better anyways just by getting more attention and still getting the curriculum mandated by the system. this makes me fairly sure op is taking the proverbial!!

If it takes three bankers five years to engineer a financial crisis, how long will it take twelve bankers, assuming identical levels of incompetence and mendacity?

Haha I love this - I’d love it even more if at the next press conference he does someone asked Rishi Sunak this!!

The reason teachers scoff at 'anyone could do it' comments is because a lot of us thought the exact same thing, and then had a go, and realised it's harder than you think, and watched our course mates drop out and our colleagues quit during NQT.

We also know how much money we'd be getting for the same amount of work in industry, the pay cut doesn't seem so bad when you think you're going to have an easy ride but I do miss getting paid double time on weekends instead of doing it for free.

Far too much frantic emotion when discussing basic facts to get the country moving and when you hit a nerve, you tend to hit a point of weakness...

I wonder if when the first schools were established they were met with such hysteria that everything was difficult and therefore, impossible.

OP, I administer basic first aid to children who have cut themselves or banged their heads. Can I be a surgeon now? I’ll fast-track my way in.

I would love to see everyone give teaching a go. Maybe then they’ll leave us to our jobs without feeling the need to belittle and attack us at every turn.

@Piggywaspushed

I, too, wonder why HR was the best you could come up with for English!!

I think of all roles, HR may current be safe (and a bit snowed under).

Same

Le sigh.

You guys are going to be your own undoing.

Where do you think the future is headed?

Online school. One parent working households. Single parents on benefits.

When the shift is made to online school, they will not need so many teachers. The bubbles will pop and that will be the paradigm shift towards online education permanently. Keep saying everything is an insult, instead of facing what is to come.

“What is your solution when bubbles inevitably burst and keyworkers are thrown under the bus in the name of fairness? That will grind society to a halt.”

Well that’s going to start happening by about October. You think you can get a budget, buy/rent and convert and furnish Debenhams, do all the health and safety checks on the building, recruit all these enthusiastic redundant people, DBS check them (that alone takes weeks), train them (?), find qualified teachers mad enough to supervise them and find enough insane parents who would uproot their child from their actual school, friends and qualified staff to allow their children to attend this “school”, by October? All so your child doesn’t miss a few days/weeks of “school”, for one winter?

Let’s leave aside the fact that even “bubbles” of ten are not going to mean some don’t pop, repeatedly.

If your actual issue is you want key worker childcare to be available in the event of disruption over winter, just say so.

Far too much frantic emotion when discussing basic facts to get the country moving and when you hit a nerve, you tend to hit a point of weakness

So you've had your arse handed to you on a plate and blame the posters.

One minute you want thousands of new schools and teachers so all children physically attend every day, the next we don’t need any teachers at all, the children can just stay home and learn online forever? Make your mind up!

When the shift is made to online school, they will not need so many teachers. The bubbles will pop and that will be the paradigm shift towards online education permanently. Keep saying everything is an insult, instead of facing what is to come

No. The only insult is what you're saying. And anyway, what's all this online stuff, I thought Debenhems was your way forward upthread?

If your actual issue is you want key worker childcare to be available in the event of disruption over winter, just say so.

I thought the whole idea of lockdown was not to overwhelm the NHS. Well, if you have a bunch of nurses who can't work then it will accomplish what we have been avoiding this whole time. So, everyone should want this and if they want to keep supermarkets running smoothly.

Also, they made Nightingale Hospitals quickly so it's not impossible to source things quickly if need be but there is no will to. There is no will because everyone is so defeatist and saying everything is impossible.

There's one thing about threads like this that annoys me. Teachers think that all the things people say about them are exclusive to them. Before working in education, I worked in law. There were times clients would actually try and tell me that they could do my job because they had read something on the internet. My sister and bil were the worst for doing it. Equally, I've heard people saying disparaging things about doctors, "what's a doctor ever done for me?" and dietitians (because they'll be the people telling you carbs don't make you fat) accountants and more. If you're a banker you probably get an even worse time.

Personally, I do think there needs to be another way to train as a teacher. The PGCE is a killer and it puts good people off doing it. I think there should be a route where you can train on the job. Most professions do have a non-degree route where you can take professional exams and learn on the job. Why can't teaching offer the same?

@echt

How has my arse been handed to me? Because people are calling for censorship on thoughts and ideas? If you guys are teachers, you should have read 1984. But sure, ask for the thread to get deleted. That'll sure show the plebs that dare to question anything.

There is no will because everyone is so defeatist and saying everything is impossible

The last time I looked it was the government who trained teachers and built schools. MN doesn't influence policy. If your ideas are so shit-hot why isn't the government rushing to do implement them?

@elmouno 🤣🤣 I hope ypure not in a position of power in your job! You did amuse me though! Thanks 🤣😂

@Lovingyou

There's one thing about threads like this that annoys me. Teachers think that all the things people say about them are exclusive to them. Before working in education, I worked in law. There were times clients would actually try and tell me that they could do my job because they had read something on the internet. My sister and bil were the worst for doing it. Equally, I've heard people saying disparaging things about doctors, "what's a doctor ever done for me?" and dietitians (because they'll be the people telling you carbs don't make you fat) accountants and more. If you're a banker you probably get an even worse time.

Personally, I do think there needs to be another way to train as a teacher. The PGCE is a killer and it puts good people off doing it. I think there should be a route where you can train on the job. Most professions do have a non-degree route where you can take professional exams and learn on the job. Why can't teaching offer the same?

It's does, schools direct, or teach first.

Generally posts go to people with more classroom experience because chucking a noob into a full timetable is a recipe for disaster.

In law, when you first start, do you handle cases in your own with minimal oversight?

OP you are hilarious.

@Triangularbubble

I'm not saying that's what I want, but it's obvious that's what will ultimately end up happening.

Because while I'm great at my media job and have an MA in English I'd have no idea how to teach teenagers, control them, help with their life problems or have any idea of the syllabus/ their level

“If your actual issue is you want key worker childcare to be available in the event of disruption over winter, just say so.

I thought the whole idea of lockdown was not to overwhelm the NHS. Well, if you have a bunch of nurses who can't work then it will accomplish what we have been avoiding this whole time. So, everyone should want this and if they want to keep supermarkets running smoothly.

Also, they made Nightingale Hospitals quickly so it's not impossible to source things quickly if need be but there is no will to. There is no will because everyone is so defeatist and saying everything is impossible.“

There were about half a dozen nightingale hospitals. And they didn’t get used much because they couldn’t staff them and the buildings were unsuitable for most hospital purposes. How many branches of Debenhams do you think you need to have classes of ten?

I’m all in favour of childcare for actual key workers (I think the definition is a bit wide and vague though), but I think there’s better ways to provide it than this.

OP - there have been many posts in recent months which highlight the complete lack of understanding of the education system in this country. I think however that your posts win first prize.

How has my arse been handed to me? Because people are calling for censorship on thoughts and ideas?

I'll break it down:

1. You've been resoundingly rebuffed.
2. Who has called for you to be censored? No-one.

If you guys are teachers, you should have read 1984

Read it, taught it. And it's "Nineteen Eighty-Four" by the way

But sure, ask for the thread to get deleted

Has anyone asked for this? Too busy laughing, I'd have thought. Daft ideas do not not break the MN guidelines.

That'll sure show the plebs that dare to question anything

Not sure what your point is here. If you're trying to make an analogy between the novel and your actions, you need to remember that those who were silenced in the novel were not plebs. And by the way the word is "proles" in the novel.

This online schooling, who is setting and marking the work?

Maybe remote school and paying people enough that they can afford one parent at home or everyone working part time would actually be a positive shift towards a better work life balance?

It's always seemed to me that with increasing automation we should all be able to work fewer hours and maintain standards of living, but it never seems to happen.

Before working in education, I worked in law. There were times clients would actually try and tell me that they could do my job because they had read something on the internet. My sister and bil were the worst for doing it. Equally, I've heard people saying disparaging things about doctors, "what's a doctor ever done for me?" and dietitians (because they'll be the people telling you carbs don't make you fat) accountants and more. If you're a banker you probably get an even worse time.

I would never be so arrogant as to think I could do someone else’s job based on a google search or because I’ve seen someone do it once. The issue is that loads of people have experience with teachers because they went to school and now maybe have children in school. There is so much more to it than what the children and parents see.