if so many people are about to be made redundant in the country, why can't experienced individuals be fast tracked as teachers?

[elmouno]

Yes, I know teachers require different types of certification. But in these pressing times, if we have people being made redundant in every industry, why can't they be placed as extra teachers so we can get class sizes smaller? For example, if someone is already a scientist with work experience in biology, chemistry, etc surely they will be able to teach it at secondary level? Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech? HR or former project managers could teach English? Bankers teaching certain maths? I don't know but I think it is really important that we get more teachers (of course they would have to pass a background check). I mean perhaps we need to get more creative with curriculum and scrap the tests for now? Perhaps children who want to get into certain universities can take a SAT test like they do in America?

It just seems a shame that we have so many people being made redundant and we have such a pressing need to make more bubbles. Large bubbles imo, won't work. What will happen to keyworkers when their bubbles pop? It doesn't make sense to me. The only answer is to build more schools and have more teachers.

Oh, and the Assistant Head at my previous school didn't actually teach, so had all day in school to do the paperwork and meetings and phone calls they needed to, plus no marking or lesson prep for the following day. And they even had whole days at home when they needed "peace" to get data done!

So being AH doesn't mean you have more to do outside of school hours than your average teacher.

It’s funny because on Mumsnet every teacher claims they work harder than anyone ever ever in any profession ever ever

This has never happened on MN. Ever.

Oh, and welcome to MN, Fallowdeerhunter

I'll grant you, though, that our DT teacher who used to be chef has some "real world" skills to pass on. Not so much our head of IT who used to be a pub landlord.

I teach Maths. What would “walking the walk” look like in this context?

Thing is, teaching isn’t seen as a valuable skill in and of itself. Being able to explain difficult maths concepts to a bunch of reluctant teenagers is not worthy of respect, but being able to regale them with stories of your time working at Barclays somehow is.

What has become increasingly apparent over lockdown is that it’s teachers who have more appreciation of the ‘real world’ than a lot of other posters. The people who didn’t know that yes, kids will go hungry if they’re not getting their FSM. That some kids don’t have access to a laptop and wifi to do zoom lessons. That some kids are abused at home and it’s not a safe place for them. The amount of posters who have earnestly explained to teachers on here that ‘vulnerable kids need to be in school’ without stopping to think that it’s those same teachers who bloody know that because they are the ones who are supporting the vulnerable kids when they are in school, and not simply because they’ve just read about it on twitter.

How can we have smaller bubbles? Schools dont have excess classrooms plus they loads are doing external sports lessons together then you are allowed another person in your house.

*Fallowdeerhunter

@NiceGerbil because teachers with no outside institution life experience aren’t as good. And they are the type who post on here moaning non stop about how hard they have it. Wouldn’t survive a second in the ‘real world’*

I’ve worked since I was 14:

1. Barrett’s shoes - 1 year
2. In a hairdressers - 1 year
3. H. Samuels Jewellers - 6 months
4. Tesco on the checkout/ behind customer services - 4 years
5. Boots Opticians Pre-screener - 3 years
6. Lloyd’s TSB (at the time) Bank - 2 years

Some of these jobs overlapped and I worked at two places at once. I think I’ve spent a reasonable enough amount of time “in the real world” to know that teaching is a really demanding job. But it is also a very rewarding job and it allows my family to go home (abroad) for longer periods of time, throughout the year.

I hate the 'real world' comments as believe you me there is no more real job that teaching children and all the extras that go with the job.

As noble says so many people do not have a bloody clue. It is they that don't get (or ignore) the real world

@Triangularbubble

By that reasoning anyone with some background in science is probably qualified as a doctor too. Fancy letting them operate on you?

Be slightly respectful towards people’s hard earned professional skills.

Doctor versus teacher - VERY different 🙄

I've been teaching for just under 20 years (primary). I have three kids of my own. Trust me, it is not as "own child" as people think! Term-time it is about the most inflexible job ever!! Most teachers will be in the latest around 8 am and get away the earliest around 5 pm. This does not fit with school hours. They can't "nip out" anywhere of course in their working day or pick the kids up/go to a school event/assembly and make the time up later. They will then work evenings too.

Have you worked in a Butchers?
Then you can teach Biology!

Do you work in Specsavers?
Then you can teach Physics!

Ever mixed chemicals to create hand sanitiser?
Then you can teach Chemistry!

Train on the job, Debenhams & Toys r Us are recruiting now!

@Fallowdeerhunter

It’s funny because on Mumsnet every teacher claims they work harder than anyone ever ever in any profession ever ever. But I have 3 very close real life teacher friends and, whilst of course they work hard, they don’t work excessively and they don’t work weekends/ holidays regularly. And one of these is an assistant head and two are subject Leaders.

See, here's the mistake.

My wife is in a promoted role at her 'real world ' job. She has extra responsibility above others so ends up working longer and harder than those non promoted.

The only people I know in teaching who have a good work life balance are those who are promoted. Promotion = less teaching time and apart from pastoral responsibilities they don't actually have as much to do. Ours delegate most of it in the name of cpd for those beneath them.

On the real world argument I should agree with you, as I had a proper job before teaching. But I don't think it's that simple. The person with the most real life experience in my subject at my school is also the one who does the least. Rocks up 2 minutes before the lesson, doesn't plan anything at all and does no marking. The absolute best teacher I've met (great results, loved by the kids etc, truly inspiring) entered teaching after his degree because the holidays looked great and he wanted another year at Uni). I know which one I would rather teach my kids.

I'm not sure quite what world people think teachers live and work in if not "the real world".

I've seen more in my time as a teacher than I did as a cleaner, a shop assistant, a research assistant and lab technician.

Obviously it's only in our cozy "fake world" where we deal with children suffering from neglect, sexual, physical and emotional abuse, where we deal with the fallout of children whose families are breaking down or parents are sick or dying. Children who are groomed, those that are involved in drugs and other crimes, children who run away. Children experiencing more different medical conditions than most people have ever heard of. All of this on top of trying to actually educate them, help inspire them and help support them into being the best they can be.

I agree pug but I guess the real world is working in an office, dealing with customers and clients who are all adults?

I simply don't get why teaching isn't the real world thing either. I think it's often an attempt by private sector workers to suggest the public sector, with 'jobs for life' , don't know 'the struggle'. And/or a belief that we 'only' work with compliant small people and have narrow knowledge og anything outside this and our subject. 'Industry experience' apparently also makes you more 'real'.

Yes, I remember working in the "real world." The one where you could chat for as long as you liked, whilst making a coffee whenever the mood took you. You could have a pee if you felt like it. Nip out to the local shop to pick something up. DD's boyfriend's "real world" office go out on Friday afternoons to play golf (set up by the MD), and if it's raining, play crazy-golf actually in the office. DH can structure his day around going to the gym when it's quiet. They can set their email accounts to "out-of-office" if they're busy and don't want disturbing.

And yes, it pisses me off as well, that people who've never before given a shit thought about it, are leaping on the "but what about the disadvantaged kids" reason for re-opening schools more widely, as if we teachers aren't acutely aware of the issues already.

I fondly remember 'breaks' from the real world. Where no-one knocked on the door to ask you a question. Breaks you could take when you wanted (within reason).

Being able to book a day off if you wanted one.

Taking time in lieu and fucking off early if you wanted to and it was a bit quiet.

Other aspects of my previous career were proper shit mind, I do prefer teaching.

It’s funny because on Mumsnet every teacher claims they work harder than anyone ever ever in any profession ever ever

Well I've been on MN for 17 years now and I've never seen a teacher claim they work harder than any profession.

I have seen teachers say realistically the hours they have worked - normally in response to another poster hinting that islets a 9-3 job with 13 weeks holidays.

But that is not the same as saying they work harder than anyone else.

because teachers with no outside institution life experience aren’t as good. And they are the type who post on here moaning non stop about how hard they have it. Wouldn’t survive a second in the ‘real world’

I've taught since leaving university but it doesn't mean I've never seen your so called real life.
Growing up and throughout training I had weekend and holiday jobs - various Office work and admin stuff, cleaning jobs, Burger King (general and also party host), worked in a bank briefly, etc.
I also live with, and spend time with, dozens of people who work outside of teaching. I know them well enough to see the ins and outs of their job too. Obviously with Dh I have seen him working incredibly closely during lock down as we have worked sharing a table together for months.

The think I envy most about 'real life' jobs is being able to go to the toilet whenever you need!

And tbh anyone who has worked in the same job, especially the same place, could have the same kind of accusation thrown at them. Everyone gets used to their own way of working within their own progression and/or company's systems. But equally being able to stick to one place can also bring its benefits too. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Problem is I know zero about teaching

The pgce won't teach you how to teach, they just chuck you in at the deep end and expect you to know how to teach.

I do know a few people that failed the PGCE. I get the impression they take on loads of candidates and expect loads to fail.

It's really hard to fail - institutions are graded on the pass rate and they like to encourage schools to pass everyone. Many more don't complete than fail.

I get the impression it was more of an "encouraged to leave" situation if that makes sense. Obviously I wasn't there and even if I was couldn't begin to comment on how good a potential teacher any of these people were.

Many more don't complete than fail.

This being the reason they are so insistent on having classroom experience before applying for the courses. They want to make sure you 100% know what you’re getting into.

@peppermintpigs

Problem is I know zero about teaching

The pgce won't teach you how to teach, they just chuck you in at the deep end and expect you to know how to teach.

Maybe. If that's true then I just wont stay for long like most NQTs and do private tutoring.

I want a job that is worthwhile and if it's not I will leave and go back to IT and better pay.

The OP clearly has never set foot in a school to work. I've been back 3 weeks so far and none of her suggestions would work in my school.

@BeingATwatItsABingThing

Many more don't complete than fail.

This being the reason they are so insistent on having classroom experience before applying for the courses. They want to make sure you 100% know what you’re getting into.

Except some don't. I ran a SCITT for several years, and we rejected anyone without classroom experience. But one Physicist we rejected was snapped up by a local provider, in spite of the fact he'd done no school experience. They don't make them teach at interview. In the end, he failed.