if so many people are about to be made redundant in the country, why can't experienced individuals be fast tracked as teachers?

[elmouno]

Yes, I know teachers require different types of certification. But in these pressing times, if we have people being made redundant in every industry, why can't they be placed as extra teachers so we can get class sizes smaller? For example, if someone is already a scientist with work experience in biology, chemistry, etc surely they will be able to teach it at secondary level? Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech? HR or former project managers could teach English? Bankers teaching certain maths? I don't know but I think it is really important that we get more teachers (of course they would have to pass a background check). I mean perhaps we need to get more creative with curriculum and scrap the tests for now? Perhaps children who want to get into certain universities can take a SAT test like they do in America?

It just seems a shame that we have so many people being made redundant and we have such a pressing need to make more bubbles. Large bubbles imo, won't work. What will happen to keyworkers when their bubbles pop? It doesn't make sense to me. The only answer is to build more schools and have more teachers.

I struggle sometimes to value the profession in the way that appears to be expected when I know people that chose to teach because of holidays, pension etc and because they didn't really know what they wanted to do

People's motivations to do jobs is none of your business, it's whether they're any good at it that matters.

People's motivations to do jobs is none of your business, it's whether they're any good at it that matters.

Completely agree. I like my job, am bloody good at it and it's not an easy 9 to 5 one either. It pays well, but if another company offers me £15-£20k+ a year more, I'm gone. I'm only there for the money and nothing more. I've no loyalty to them, just like they have none to me.

Work is for money and any perks you get and nothing more.

I think it would be positive to bring people with experience outside of schools into the education system

Why, user?

Out of interest.

@user1487194234

I think it would be positive to bring people with experience outside of schools into the education system

Many teachers have done something else before teaching, though? i don't think my primary is anything particularly special, and we number ex-librarians, ex specialist retail, ex-scientific researcher, ex-office worker, ex- middle manager, ex-creative (artist/musician), ex-publisher, ex-civil servant, ex-estate agent amongst the current staff? And that's just the ones I know about in terms of their 'previous lives'.

@HipTightOnions clearly. So it would take a short time for the adults to grasp the concepts and then they teach it, right.

I really do understand good teachers are amazing. But there are plenty of shit teachers and I don’t see this would be much difference

@NiceGerbil because teachers with no outside institution life experience aren’t as good. And they are the type who post on here moaning non stop about how hard they have it. Wouldn’t survive a second in the ‘real world’

[quote Fallowdeerhunter]@NiceGerbil because teachers with no outside institution life experience aren’t as good. And they are the type who post on here moaning non stop about how hard they have it. Wouldn’t survive a second in the ‘real world’[/quote]
To be honest, some teachers aren't very good, and there doesn't seem to be a particular correlation between this and whether they come fairly straight into the profession or whether they have done something else first.

IME, though, the very worst are those who join from a different field thinking that teaching will be 'easy' compared with their 'proper job'.

[quote Fallowdeerhunter]@NiceGerbil because teachers with no outside institution life experience aren’t as good. And they are the type who post on here moaning non stop about how hard they have it. Wouldn’t survive a second in the ‘real world’[/quote]
Teaching is my second / third career. Although my first career was in something generally considered 'hard', and my second was probably most people's definition of 'a successful career in which people generally work very hard', I have NEVER worked as hard as I do as a teacher.

I agree in general with you. Maybe people can’t transition quickly to teaching roles but maybe ta roles.

[quote Fallowdeerhunter]@HipTightOnions clearly. So it would take a short time for the adults to grasp the concepts and then they teach it, right.

I really do understand good teachers are amazing. But there are plenty of shit teachers and I don’t see this would be much difference[/quote]
OK, so you’ve spent your “short time grasping the concepts” (when and how?) for that lesson/series of lessons for Year 7. You need to do the same for all the other series of lessons you need to teach to Year 8-13. And then you need to learn, or work out, how to learn how to teach it - this is a bigger deal than you think! And then you need to learn all the other stuff that posters have outlined previously.

I’m not saying if can’t be done - I am a career changer who now teaches maths, but I already had a maths degree and it took time and serious effort to become good at teaching it.

[quote Fallowdeerhunter]@NiceGerbil because teachers with no outside institution life experience aren’t as good. And they are the type who post on here moaning non stop about how hard they have it. Wouldn’t survive a second in the ‘real world’[/quote]
I'm hoping that's sarcasm but just in case...

I've done both.

10 years in medical research. Worked weekends, Xmas, the lot, early starts, trips in in the night. Occasionally traumatic. Trained colleagues, planned rotas, developed an occupational illness.

I couldn't have taught straight out of uni, I was too immature, but the people who have are mostly dedicated hardworking professionals who just knew what they wanted when they were young.

Most teachers I know would excel in the so called 'real world'. I wouldn't say teaching was 'harder'. But it's stressful, and takes a lot of different skills to do well. Good teachers tend to work long hours, because there's always one more thing you could do to make it better.

At least in industry there wasn't much I could do from home so I could switch off.

I think the problem is everyone has met a bad teacher, because we all had a lot of teachers, so it's easy to generalise in a way be don't with other professions because most of us haven't met enough doctors or lawyers or accountants to have been sure of meeting a bad one.

It’s funny because on Mumsnet every teacher claims they work harder than anyone ever ever in any profession ever ever. But I have 3 very close real life teacher friends and, whilst of course they work hard, they don’t work excessively and they don’t work weekends/ holidays regularly. And one of these is an assistant head and two are subject
Leaders.

I think they would bring a different perspective and can walk the walk rather than just talk the talk
Obviously would have to meet the academic standards and do the training
Interesting that pp talks about teachers who have worked elsewhere
None of that I'm my DCs schools
All took the school/uni/school route
A few back to the same school

Whoops, too many “learn how”s there!

*It’s funny because on Mumsnet every teacher claims they work harder than anyone ever ever in any profession ever ever”

Bullshit.

I think they would bring a different perspective and can walk the walk

I teach Maths. What would “walking the walk” look like in this context?

(I am a career changer btw.)

Well in reality you dont need a degree or PGCE to teach ( because there are unqualified people teaching) but in reality you do really need to be a graduate, also have a post grad cert if you want to progress in teaching.

I am hoping to do my PGCE next Sept. I could teach science without it or I could teach IT as I was a programmer for 16 years.

Problem is I know zero about teaching and I cant remember the national curriculum.

For IT what I know is way too high brow technically unless I was teaching at uni - which I cant as I'm just a graduate.

I think kids deserve people who are committed to get those qualifications.

It's funny how ex teachers can bring so much to the 'real world' as well. Who would have thought teaching could in itself develop some - y'know- actual skills , experiences and talents?

As someone who has been teaching (successfully) for nearly 30 years and am doing the job I wanted to from a young child , I am not sure what I should have done first to make me more worthy , or a better teacher, somehow. Nowt wrong with being a career teacher.

I would be all in favour of smaller class sizes but the limiting factor is not merely the warm bodies with functional brains to stand at the front of the room. there is also the money that would be needed to pay the additional wage bill (for class sizes to decrease by 25% the wage bill would need to go up by 33%) and the schools would need the additional classrooms for the additional classes to occupy and that volume of space just doesn't exist.

and the "learning on the job" thing has its own complications in the context of a pandemic, because when you are trying to minimise potential infection opportunities having additional bodies in the classroom (mentors etc) isn't ideal.

@Fallowdeerhunter

It’s funny because on Mumsnet every teacher claims they work harder than anyone ever ever in any profession ever ever. But I have 3 very close real life teacher friends and, whilst of course they work hard, they don’t work excessively and they don’t work weekends/ holidays regularly. And one of these is an assistant head and two are subject Leaders.

Please quote my post where I have said I work harder than anyone else. Thanks.

Thanks for all the replies to my question.

It feels to me that most of them again go back to an idea that, not sure how to express this. People saying it's not the real world or proper work or something.

I find this baffling tbh.

Teaching well is a genuine skill. Not everyone can do it by a long chalk.
It requires a personality that is really good at doing pre-work, being super organised
It comes with a whole load of additional challenges. Children who act up. Children with special needs. Children who are having a bad time at home etc. Handling a classroom full of children, all different young people with their own challenges etc is tough
Knowing a subject well is not the same as being able to explain it well

I've heard about 'teacher bashing' on MN but don't usually read etc. But this thread seems to cover it.

Are you kidding? After all the hate that has been aimed at teachers over the past few months, who in their right mind would want that?

Career teacher here, and proud of it. I've wanted to do it since I can remember, I've worked hard, and I'm objectively good at it.
"Walk the walk rather than just talk the talk" is meaningless unless you expect every English teacher to have first been grammarian and poet and playwright and literary critic.

Career teacher here - I’m bloody good at it. Ime kids really don’t care what else you’ve done as a job, they want you to teach them. The only time they are interested in how the teacher used to manage a department in a big business or were very successful doing important real life things is when they want to distract the teacher from the lesson.