if so many people are about to be made redundant in the country, why can't experienced individuals be fast tracked as teachers?

[elmouno]

Yes, I know teachers require different types of certification. But in these pressing times, if we have people being made redundant in every industry, why can't they be placed as extra teachers so we can get class sizes smaller? For example, if someone is already a scientist with work experience in biology, chemistry, etc surely they will be able to teach it at secondary level? Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech? HR or former project managers could teach English? Bankers teaching certain maths? I don't know but I think it is really important that we get more teachers (of course they would have to pass a background check). I mean perhaps we need to get more creative with curriculum and scrap the tests for now? Perhaps children who want to get into certain universities can take a SAT test like they do in America?

It just seems a shame that we have so many people being made redundant and we have such a pressing need to make more bubbles. Large bubbles imo, won't work. What will happen to keyworkers when their bubbles pop? It doesn't make sense to me. The only answer is to build more schools and have more teachers.

The sectors with the biggest redundancies this year are:

Aviation -

Retail -

Restaurants -

Car manufacturing (factory workers) -

Energy -

Should we be assuming that all of these people already have a degree? That their degree is relevant to the national curriculum? Retail? Factories? Restaurants?

Or do we just slot them in where we see fit? E.g. Jill was a waitress in Frankie and Benny’s, so she can be a food teacher? Mike worked in the BMW factory, so whilst he hasn’t got a formal degree, he can surely teach DT?

Come on op! People aren’t trying to knock a good idea with nothing better to suggest...we’re all just astounded that someone is so ignorant about our profession, comes on the internet to literally downplay the importance of the teaching profession. It’s offensive and rude.

Teachers are not responsible for recruiting and changing the education system anyway. That’s down to a whole other department (who incidentally also have very little idea).

@mumsneedwine

I am happy to offer up my year 11s as a training class 😊

Me too, my bottom set year 11 physics group are doing energy when we get back - pretty sure redundant pilots and Ex-NPower employees would be perfect.

Bonus, they've already covered it in lockdown (none of them did it), so it should be really quick!

During lockdown, parents IF they had the time, can teach primary subjects fairly easily given the amout of resources now available online. Many could also teach other people's kids if they were trained up to do so.

Yes, the key word is trained. I have s BA degree, a one-year Primary PGCE and a successful NQT year.

That's why I'm allowed to teach other people's children. Saying any parent could teach a bunch of other people children primary so I could go and teach secondary is insulting. There is pedagogy and SEN consideration and SKILL to teaching primary, you know.

Pfft.

(having seen some training sessions written and delivered by those “who can and do” which we’re beyond appalling)

Hence why they're doers and not teachers. I've experienced some dreadful teachers, absolutely dreadful.

I agree that doing and teaching are different skill sets. My point is that it’s rude to say that teachers “can’t do” and that they wouldn’t be teachers if they could “do”. I think it devalues the profession.

If it was more valued and easier to get rid of poor teachers that would be better for everyone.

easier to get rid of poor teachers

It’s actually quite easy to “get rid” of teachers. The issue is, who would replace them?

Not meaning to be disrespectful, but just wanting to find a way to smaller bubbles so kids can go back safely.

The biggest barrier to smaller bubbles but all back is classroom space.

We can't magic up double the amount of classrooms and furniture.

That's before we force people into being a teacher just because they've been unfortunate enough to to lose their job.

What we don't want in schools are unqualified adults who would rather be doing a different job!

We also can't just fill schools up with more adults for fast track. We already have many trainee teachers in the system (retention after a few years is the big issue not the initial training) who needs those places in schools with mentors to train them.

Dd is starting teacher training this year. Over three years she needs to have access to placements at various tones with mentors. Ever hear we have a couple of trainee teachers - either degrees or PGCE - who needs placements with us.

If we push these newly unemployed people into those positions, what happens to our normal trainee teachers who have signed up through choice? Where will they go?

I struggle sometimes to value the profession in the way that appears to be expected when I know people that chose to teach because of holidays, pension etc and because they didn't really know what they wanted to do. I know 3 teachers who hold leadership roles in schools where there is a lot of deprivation because they want to make a difference - I admire them.

I was an able student and liked many of many teachers but never met an inspirational one. I know some successful people who didn't engage with education. So overall I don't share the reverence for the profession

I teach engineering in CBHE. My day release students earn more than me. We can't recruit from industry because the pay and benefits aren't enough. Anyone made redundant is likely to look for another industrial job unless they happen to want to go into teaching for non pay related reasons eg mortgage paid off, semi retired, fancy a few hours work. Or (and I'm aware how stereotypical this sounds but it's what I've seen) mums who have a well paid DH and want a part time, relatively child friendly job with no night shifts or working away.

and provide online work for while the students are at home. There wouldn't be extra work involved as you would be planning half the work but delivering it twice.

Thus cannot happen. Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately, parents now have first hand experience of the difference in quality of online teaching support between schools and between teachers in the same school.
If teaching goes online again this year, I am going to be in constant contact with the teacher and school principal. Teachers cannot and will not be abke to be in constant contact with up to fifteen parents as well as teaching half the class.
I believe parents will be far more involved now and far less willing to believe that the teachers are doing all they can.

Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech?

But they won't want to. Of the 4 IT Consultants made redundant 5 weeks ago from our business, I know of at least 2 that are contracting on over £500 a day, they won't be getting that teaching. They don't need to learn new skills either.I know what I'd rather be doing.

Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech?

I know somebody who did exactly this and now teaches in third level. He loves it. The difference in pay is made up by the longer holidays and he has lots of time to study himself. So far he has another degree and another masters under his belt.

So you know people who chose to teach for the holidays and the pension. But that doesn't mean we all did.
And you know people who do it because they didn't know what else to do. But that didn't mean we all did.
It's a shame you never met an inspirational teacher. I did. She made me want to do for other students what she did for me.
I know plenty of people who don't engage with education. Doesn't mean I'm a bad teacher or my colleagues are bad teachers. In some cases, it's because education as it is set up in this country doesn't suit all students. In others, it's because they have significant barriers to their learning.
We're not asking for reverence. I'm a teacher, not a god.

I'm not asking to be revered either. But I could do without media, government and public hatred and contempt.

@Alongcameacat

and provide online work for while the students are at home. There wouldn't be extra work involved as you would be planning half the work but delivering it twice.

Thus cannot happen. Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately, parents now have first hand experience of the difference in quality of online teaching support between schools and between teachers in the same school.
If teaching goes online again this year, I am going to be in constant contact with the teacher and school principal. Teachers cannot and will not be abke to be in constant contact with up to fifteen parents as well as teaching half the class.
I believe parents will be far more involved now and far less willing to believe that the teachers are doing all they can.

No I said that in response to the op, they appear to think that recruiting thousands of people from other industries would allow us to have smaller classes but then as part of the plan to facilitate that would require pupils to be part time while already qualified staff train them.

That makes no sense and is no more helpful than splitting classes into 2 and having them alternate days/weeks, which we could already do without the cost of recruiting extra people.

I didn't say I thought it would be the right thing to do it that it would be popular.

Having worked with hundreds of teachers in over two decades, some good, some ok and some truly terrible, I have never ever encountered a single one who is in it for the holidays or the pension.
I get really annoyed by people who constantly peddle that as being true.
We teachers do get long holidays, but we do not get paid for them. Any self employed person could lose 3 months of pay each year and have the same holidays as us. Any business could choose to shut in order for everyone to have more holidays. Many teachers would love to be able to work 40 hours a week instead of the 60+ which is quite usual in our profession in return for less holidays but we have absolutely no choice in that, we do the work that is required at the times directed to us.

Sadly schools are also making qualified and experienced teachers and support staff redundant too due to a lack of adequate funding.

I think the op has some great ideas.

Class sizes no bigger than 10.
Pay rise for teachers who do training.

Sounds like heaven to me.

(FWIW I’m a hod in a large secondary, currently trainee teacher training is included in my salary. And my classes are around 33).

Probably Should just ignore all the negative (aka realistic) points.

(Not sure how I do emogjis, so hope the sarcasm was clear in my first bit)

The big difference with the odd example of people they know who did xyzzy in industry and teach is all great. However, they CHOSE to do so. It what they decided to do and they followed the various routes into teaching to do so.

If those people who have recently lost their jobs CHOSE to retrain as a teacher then they can do so. There are the schemes out there available for them to do so.

But to just 'place' unemployed people into schools to teach simply because they've been unfortunate is ridiculous. We don't want a school full of reluctant employees being forced into a profession they'd rather not do.

Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech

We don't teach IT as much these days. It come under computing and has a much greater computer programming content. Many of the IT Techs i have worked with haven't been programmers and don't know the programming languages used in schools.

Isn't that the irony @piefacedClique just when we need more staff

So overall I don't share the reverence for the profession.

But we're not revered?

We are vilified by the press often, parents who didn't get on with some teachers when they were at school seem to think we're all lazy and just in it for the holidays, the Government don't even value education enough to give us enough money to buy glue sticks.

So you're just part of the seeming majority of people in this country who are quick to tell us we're not special, we get 13 weeks holiday a year and only work 9-3 each day.

I only worked 9-3 today, I'll be honest.

But then, it is the middle of the summer holidays and I was doing it completely for free.

So do you want to be told you're special @KatherineOfGaunt?

My teacher friends work nothing like the 60 hour weeks a pp referenced - and neither should they. Nor have they done any work through the holidays, again, they shouldn't have to. Teacher experience (both as a teacher and as a pupil/parent) seems to vary widely.

No, I don't think teachers are special.