School return will fail

[covidteacherscotland]

Okay so we have been back to school for a week! Great? No. Definitely not. Some thoughts on why this will be a disaster:

16 and 17 year olds are not children.

Social distancing is impossible. Genuinely impossible. Children will not or cannot stay out your space.

There is no PPE in school at all and staff are not protected in any way.

Children don't give a shit about washing their hands.

We've been doing double periods instead of single to minimise movement. This means that we are stuck in a room with 30 17 year olds with few or no windows as the respiratory droplets add up.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

I think that because infection is so low we'll be okay for a while - a few weeks - then the shit will hit the fan.

I don't think teachers should be taking temperatures every morning surely they have enough to do, and can you imagine trying to take the temperatures of 1000 secondary pupils every morning it would take forever. Surely us as parents could check our own child/children each morning if need be.

No one says they shouldn't be getting protection and no one is saying that's right.

But gloating about being in a secure job with protection all around is really bad taste.

This I haven’t seen in real life. Please do speak up and tell us about it, being shouted at shouldn’t be tolerated.

Figurative speech. Read the many, many threads about teachers on here. So much unjust and shouty anger. I appreciate some people's comprehension skills are poor but it has been explained so many times why it is unsafe under the current guidelines.

Truth is they don't want to know, they just want the kids in school whatever the cost.

Sad, really.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

No one says they shouldn't be getting protection and no one is saying that's right.

But gloating about being in a secure job with protection all around is really bad taste.

But you think teachers should just shut up and get back to school. Without protection.

So actually do you think they have a right to be scared and want protection or do you think they should put up and shut up and get back into classrooms because others have also had bad situations?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

You make some very valid points. I hadn’t considered how this could lead to an educational divide between low and high transmission areas. Those in schools that have to repeatedly send bubbles home will have a worse level of education.

I still think a plan including actual social distancing would obviously lead to less disruption. Even if that meant part time it would at least be a solid structure.

So much unjust and shouty anger. I appreciate some people's comprehension skills are poor but it has been explained so many times why it is unsafe under the current guidelines

This is so rude and arrogant.

I think you should get on with it, yes.

@FlySheMust

This I haven’t seen in real life. Please do speak up and tell us about it, being shouted at shouldn’t be tolerated.

Figurative speech. Read the many, many threads about teachers on here. So much unjust and shouty anger. I appreciate some people's comprehension skills are poor but it has been explained so many times why it is unsafe under the current guidelines.

Truth is they don't want to know, they just want the kids in school whatever the cost.

Sad, really.

Yeah I don't think posts like this particularly help though.

God this is such a depressing thread, as are so many others at the moment.

Are there so many people walking around seeming nice and reasonable but actually bitter, mean and full of vitriol inside? No kindness? No understanding?

No accepting that two things can both have validity at the same time?

Parents and teachers and other school staff can desperately want a return to something like normality with children attending school but there can also be worries and fears over how things will work out?

What's the point in the aggression and ripping each other to shreds? Who does that help? Certainly not the children.

It is quite worrying that 16/17 year olds can't cope with filling a bottle with tape water at home and bringing it in to school, saving it and refilling it the next day.

It is much more worrying that someone who claims to be responsible for educating those young adults can't think through the issue.

No need for expensive water bottles, a 2l bottle of water or pop from the supermarket costs less than 10p, and you can reuse the bottle a few times providing you don't leave it to fester.

Not that vast quantities of water are really necessary, back in the 80s we got 1 small cup of lukewarm milk, water or weak squash at lunchtime and nothing else during the school day. Nobody ever collapsed from dehydration, and if you didn't drink you didn't have to use the awful loos!

@solidaritea - Teachers can't refuse access to students without masks, so that's a luxury teachers won't have.

I know that. I never suggested they could or should do that.

Some schools will support teachers encouraging mask wearing, but it's unlikely to be successful unless parents are supportive of mask wearing.

That's where your union needs to step up. Teachers here would not return to the classroom if masks weren't required.

@Redhair23 - You can’t demand that I am afraid, it’s not lawful.

I can refuse to teach if they are not compliant. It is then their responsibility to get an exemption. It will be done nicely, obviously, but I can say masks are compulsory in my classes.

I suspect that if enough of us take this line, the university will make them compulsory. I suspect they will do so anyway as all communication is referring to face coverings in lecture halls, labs etc.

I would think most GP surgery’s will not allow appointments solely for getting a note to appease a lecturer. Plus it’s usually a charge of £25.

As I stated in my post, I am not in the UK so this is not relevant.

[quote OchonAgusOchonO]**@Redhair23* - You can’t demand that I am afraid, it’s not lawful.*

I can refuse to teach if they are not compliant. It is then their responsibility to get an exemption. It will be done nicely, obviously, but I can say masks are compulsory in my classes.

I suspect that if enough of us take this line, the university will make them compulsory. I suspect they will do so anyway as all communication is referring to face coverings in lecture halls, labs etc.

I would think most GP surgery’s will not allow appointments solely for getting a note to appease a lecturer. Plus it’s usually a charge of £25.

As I stated in my post, I am not in the UK so this is not relevant.[/quote]
Really? Can you?

I feel like for a lot of teachers if they refuse to do their job they'll just get sacked like anyone else.

@covidteacherscotland. clearly THE only expert we’ve all been waiting for 👏 👏

No seriously, leave it to the scientists. You aren’t an expert and stop pretending to be.

Really? Can you? I feel like for a lot of teachers if they refuse to do their job they'll just get sacked like anyone else.

My employer has a duty of care to me. We have a lot more rights here than you have in the UK. Also, third level is different to second level. I would not be refusing to teach as I would provide an online alternative if I cannot teach safely in person.

@OchonAgusOchonO I would be surprised if it is legal in many countries but even more so one that gives out free medical exemption certificates at the behest of a lecturer.

My kids are back. They all have ppe as do staff, no double periods, they wash and sanitise their hands regularly. Kids are not idiots

And there's plenty of drinking water.

@OchonAgusOchonO

Really? Can you? I feel like for a lot of teachers if they refuse to do their job they'll just get sacked like anyone else.

My employer has a duty of care to me. We have a lot more rights here than you have in the UK. Also, third level is different to second level. I would not be refusing to teach as I would provide an online alternative if I cannot teach safely in person.

Yeah I don't think that would fly in the UK!

Well that's a really cheery opening post. How about we give it a try at least since it's quite important to educate children??

It is then their responsibility to get an exemption

You will face issues under disability discrimination legislation if you insist on this. There is no such thing as an exemption. GPs will not provide them although some charities are providing cards for their members and there are government exemption cards available online to download. No one is obliged to discuss their personal medical issues to be able to access areas where masks are compulsory.

I say that as an overweight, over 50 teacher with major concerns and who would rather we all wore masks. I also say it as someone with a child who may need to remove his mask in a public place if he becomes unwell. We realise this might happen and have prepped accordingly with the government exemption available on our phones but I will fight to the bitter end anyone who tries to remove that right from us. People with disabilities and other conditions have as much right as anyone else to go about their daily business.

This is for the U.K.

How about we give it a try at least since it's quite important to educate children??

How about we listen to people who work in schools and who understand the complexity of what we are being asked to do? Maybe then schools will be open longer to educate children, eh?!

@Redhair23 - I would be surprised if it is legal in many countries but even more so one that gives out free medical exemption certificates at the behest of a lecturer.

We don't get free medical exemption certs here.

As I said, I can refuse to teach live unless the class are all wearing masks. It is up to the student to convince me that I should let them attend without a mask. A cert will convince me. A student telling me they don't want to, won't. If they don't want to convince me, they can attend online.

To be honest, I can't see it being an issue. I expect the vast majority will wear masks anyway. I also expect the university will make them compulsory, with an option for students to apply for an exemption. The exemption will presumably require evidence, the same way my kids' secondary school is requiring evidence for an exemption. We will be notified of those who are exempt.

@Redhair23 - This is for the U.K.

And is completely irrelevant to me.