School return will fail

[covidteacherscotland]

Okay so we have been back to school for a week! Great? No. Definitely not. Some thoughts on why this will be a disaster:

16 and 17 year olds are not children.

Social distancing is impossible. Genuinely impossible. Children will not or cannot stay out your space.

There is no PPE in school at all and staff are not protected in any way.

Children don't give a shit about washing their hands.

We've been doing double periods instead of single to minimise movement. This means that we are stuck in a room with 30 17 year olds with few or no windows as the respiratory droplets add up.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

I think that because infection is so low we'll be okay for a while - a few weeks - then the shit will hit the fan.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

It's a want to do their job safely for the sake of their pupils and colleagues and with the hope of it's got right then there won't be another national closing of schools.

That would what the rest us have been doing for months now. Welcome!

Have you been doing it whilst being told you can't and won't have safety measures like PPE and in a non ventilated room with over 30 people for )+ hours a day?

Because a) if you haven't it's not comparable and b) if you have then why haven't you had more self respect for yourself and fought for safe working conditions?

And all teachers I know have been in school a lot since March as well as home teaching. And most even worked eater holidays and bank holidays and may half term for free.

It was all over the news how care home staff moved onto sight etc.

I never once saw the same stories in the media about all the teachers who worked extra for free.

The reality isn't what the government have made the media portray as real.

Again, I really can't understand how parents are so blasé about their child's health and education.

Does it not bother parents that some schools might be in repeated waves of opening and closing while other schools in unaffected areas will continue? What impact will that have on formal exams next year? What about vulnerable (health) or de shielded children? There's no provision for them. Will parents not be upset if their child catches it at school and they then have to isolate with them or if their child catches it and infects the household? Are parents not concerned about this?

TrustTheGeneGenie

As much fun as this hasn't been, I'm going to leave you to your bitterness and go enjoy the weather.

Try to have a nice day.

What is the point of these posts there is nothing you can do the kids are going back that is it !!!!! If teachers want to wear ppe let them the fact is this virus is going no where ... ffs just live but be careful ... to be honest I am finding the whole thing wierd anyway

I keep hearing a mask doesnt work unless everyone is wearing one. Surly its just common sense if 70% wear one, is better statisticly then if 0% , so im not wearing a mask because they dont work unless everyone else wears one is just not true. The risk stil comes down.

@MarshaBradyo

People should be more curious about what the scientific community are saying rather than flying off the handle because it doesn’t fit what they want to hear. Must be exhausting to be so angry at people relaying data.

If you’re interested in schools then makes sense to be open to information.

No 1 being their decision to enforce mask wearing in public spaces for everyone over 11 because that's what science says and yet within the magical protective walls of schools children don't spread the virus.

I'd be more confident if someone could tell me if my 15 yo scientifically needs to wear a mask or not.

Not within a political stance but from an actual epidemiology POV.

@Ellsbells12

What is the point of these posts there is nothing you can do the kids are going back that is it !!!!! If teachers want to wear ppe let them the fact is this virus is going no where ... ffs just live but be careful ... to be honest I am finding the whole thing wierd anyway

Way to miss the point.

They want PPE. They aren't allowed it.

Hence the issue!

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Again, I really can't understand how parents are so blasé about their child's health and education.

Does it not bother parents that some schools might be in repeated waves of opening and closing while other schools in unaffected areas will continue? What impact will that have on formal exams next year? What about vulnerable (health) or de shielded children? There's no provision for them. Will parents not be upset if their child catches it at school and they then have to isolate with them or if their child catches it and infects the household? Are parents not concerned about this?

I think the vast majority of parents don't see beyond the 'this is a very mild disease for the vast majority of the young', coupled with their very real worries about the need for children to be in school in order for parents to work to keep a roof over their families' heads.

Most of us, let's face it, don't see much beyond our own particular worries and interests - in the same way as teachers may see parents as relatively uncaring about their health worries, parents may see teachers as being uncaring of their economic worries.

Also, when there are no 'good' solutions to a genuinely difficult problem, it is natural to just hope that, on a personal level, you have good luck.

@covidteacherscotland - It's unfair to ask children to wear a mask for 6-7 hours a day. Parents wouldn't stand for it.

Why? I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect them to wear masks. Schools aren't back in Ireland yet but all secondary school kids will be required to wear masks unless they have a valid reason to be exempt.

For some reason, primary school kids don't have to wear them but I suspect quite a number will be wearing them anyway.

I assume there is nothing preventing you personally, and your school as a whole, from encouraging children to wear masks?

I work in a university. We have been told that students will be strongly encouraged to wear face coverings but it will not be mandatory. The university wants a mix of on-campus and online this coming year so we will be in front of our classes. I will telling my students that in-class attendance requires a face covering. I will provide a recording for those who don't want to wear a covering.

Obviously, if a student has a valid reason for an exemption, I will be flexible but I will require documentary evidence. I don't need to know the reason but a note from a doctor or counsellor saying they cannot wear one will do.

itsgettingweird they didn’t cover masks unfortunately. But I agree it is a patchy area and I’d be interested to know if wearing a mask for a whole school day is that beneficial.

@whiskybysidedoor

To be fair, teachers have had their eyes opened to certain parents.

Zero respect for many of them posting here. Poor kids.

To be honest I think you’ve hit a nail on the head here.

Service users criticise en mass the service they were given.

Other professions:- shit we better look internally how we can improve and try and fix it.

Teachers:- blame the service users. They must be assholes.

The service users are the children. They aren't the problem. Some parents however are a big problem ...

Such ignorance of how schools work displayed daily on MN and no desire to find out. Just stamping feet demanding the children go back. And shouting at teachers. Very odd behaviour. Almost deranged.

They will go back. Teachers would prefer it if they went back safely but some parents are less concerned about that from what I've read here. They just want them back in school at any cost.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

I am working in some very challenging situation.

Sometimes I wear I mask, sometimes I cannot, for operational reasons. Sometimes I work with many people at the same time, in a confines space.

I'm working because I am self employed and I won't get paid otherwise. I don't have the luxury of sitting at home whinging while getting paid.

Sometimes you wear a mask - teachers aren't allowed

Sometimes you are in a room with others - teachers are actually continuously in this environment as that's their working environment.

Sometimes you can't wear a mask due to operational reasons. But it's your choice to take on that work or not? And again it's sometimes - not a permanent requirement and expectation of the role.

The job I do is training adults. (Mostky teachers but I am not one)

Part of the course requires close contact and touching. Part requires group work.

We will commmence in September when schools open.

I have a robust risk assessment.

Masks are available or bring your own.
Bring own food and drinks.
Hand washing at certain intervals and always before and after touch.
Some of the course will be done outside if possible to limit time in a room (but it's a hall not classroom so bigger)
Fixed bubbles of 3 adults for entire course and they are only ones they go within 2 m of.

Then they go back to the classroom and it's all undone!

I'm working because I am self employed and I won't get paid otherwise. I don't have the luxury of sitting at home whinging while getting paid

So what? Get a job with protection.

@MarshaBradyo

itsgettingweird they didn’t cover masks unfortunately. But I agree it is a patchy area and I’d be interested to know if wearing a mask for a whole school day is that beneficial.

I'd be interested to know if wearing a mask for 30 minutes in Aldi at SD is more beneficial than wearing one in his post 16 class of 18, with no mask and what'll be SD when seated (but I'd question when they leave classroom!)

*I'm working because I am self employed and I won't get paid otherwise. I don't have the luxury of sitting at home whinging while getting paid

So what? Get a job with protection.*

Staggering entitlement.

@FrippEnos

TrustTheGeneGenie

As much fun as this hasn't been, I'm going to leave you to your bitterness and go enjoy the weather.

Try to have a nice day.

Bitterness? Lol. No bitterness from me.

I love my job, I'm not whinging about it.

Why don't you get a job you are comfortable doing, because you don't seem to want to do yours?

So what? Get a job with protection. [

The service users are the children. They aren't the problem. Some parents however are a big problem ...

Such ignorance of how schools work displayed daily on MN and no desire to find out.

My kids have been pretty vocal about how bad it’s been.

Parents speak on behalf of their children because they are vulnerable and have no power in the situation. Thankfully people do tend to speak up on behalf on kids nowadays so the abuses of the past hopefully happen less.

But I’m interested in what you say. Just stamping feet demanding the children go back. And shouting at teachers. Very odd behaviour. Almost deranged.

This I haven’t seen in real life. Please do speak up and tell us about it, being shouted at shouldn’t be tolerated.

So what? Get a job with protection

You also seem very unaware, or maybe deliberately so, of the millions of workers on zero hours contacts with no protection whatsoever, while you are sitting prettily petting paid.

Shame on you.

@echt

I'm working because I am self employed and I won't get paid otherwise. I don't have the luxury of sitting at home whinging while getting paid

So what? Get a job with protection.

So can we just say to teachers concerns, so what get a job where you can social distance then?

@ochonagusochono

Teachers can't refuse access to students without masks, so that's a luxury teachers won't have. Some schools will support teachers encouraging mask wearing, but it's unlikely to be successful unless parents are supportive of mask wearing.

@ehct your "get a job with protection" comment was unkind and as ludicrous as the people saying teachers should quit if they don't like how schools are opening.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

So what? Get a job with protection

You also seem very unaware, or maybe deliberately so, of the millions of workers on zero hours contacts with no protection whatsoever, while you are sitting prettily petting paid.

Shame on you.

Their employers should be giving them protection. They should be following the Covid secure guidelines set out by government. And where an outbreak occurs they will be investigated and if it's found they haven't they can be closed down.

Just because other places are failing in their duty if care towards employees doesn't mean it's a green light for others to follow suit.

That's like saying because all those factories in Leicester paying £4 an hour with no protection were unearthed that's the highest expectation of employment any employee should expect.
Whilst also ignoring that this has also been linked to the high cases in this area which has meant greater restrictions.

Obviously, if a student has a valid reason for an exemption, I will be flexible but I will require documentary evidence. I don't need to know the reason but a note from a doctor or counsellor saying they cannot wear one will do

You can’t demand that I am afraid, it’s not lawful.
I would think most GP surgery’s will not allow appointments solely for getting a note to appease a lecturer. Plus it’s usually a charge of £25.