School return will fail

[covidteacherscotland]

Okay so we have been back to school for a week! Great? No. Definitely not. Some thoughts on why this will be a disaster:

16 and 17 year olds are not children.

Social distancing is impossible. Genuinely impossible. Children will not or cannot stay out your space.

There is no PPE in school at all and staff are not protected in any way.

Children don't give a shit about washing their hands.

We've been doing double periods instead of single to minimise movement. This means that we are stuck in a room with 30 17 year olds with few or no windows as the respiratory droplets add up.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

I think that because infection is so low we'll be okay for a while - a few weeks - then the shit will hit the fan.

At the end of the day, the evidence is partial and contradictory on how kids and teens in schools spread covid. Some parts of the UK are actively trying to eradicate the virus with others not. We are going to have to try stuff out without full knowledge as we don't have evidence enough for certainty.

@OchonAgusOchonO sorry, you must have misunderstood as I didn’t say it did?

I would love to know which country you lecture in that can demand it and also has the medical capacity and time to provide certificates so that students with disabilities can attend your lectures.

Or would that be ‘outing’?

Nurseries I've been back open for ages, there's no concern for these children, or staff.
At least older children should know and understand the risks of being too close to each and not washing hands their hands.

For everyone demanding masks and of visors

Visors are not optic grade and difficult to see fine detail through so impractical at school (more for kids than teachers)

Face masks are truly awful to wear all day. I challenge anyone wanting kids to do so to wear them themselves (obviously without touching their face). All day.

@Icequeen01

How do you think SEN schools have managed? My school has never closed and all our children have been in. No PPE, impossible to social distance with the kids or other members of staff. Admittedly we don't have 30 in a class but due to the nature of our children they can bite, spit, soil etc so I would say we are pretty high risk.

My DS works in a well known supermarket and due to his Uni being closed in March he worked full time during the peak. Guess what, for the first few weeks he was given no PPE whatsoever and customers kept pinching the sanitiser provided for staff!

My dsis is an SEN teacher in Telford and Wrekin - their LEA made PPE compulsory back in May for all the reasons you describe.

@Redhair23 - I mentioned where I'm located in my initial post.

Masks are compulsory for secondary school students here. If your child can't wear one, you can discuss it with the school. In most cases, that may be enough as the school will already know the student has asthma etc. If not, the school can ask for supporting evidence. Someone may decide to take a test case but parents are generally supportive of the requirement for masks in school.

I expect the university will do the same.

Nobody will be denied access to lectures as I will be providing online anyway for those who can't attend as they are at risk.

Some schools will support teachers encouraging mask wearing, but it's unlikely to be successful unless parents are supportive of mask wearing.

At my school staff can wear masks. We have gallons of hand gel. There will be a support member of staff dishing out water during break and lunch. Children are not allowed out of class to get water during lesson time (never have been as it is too disruptive too lessons).

Any student mucking about with a pretend cough will immediately be sent home. The school is taking a zero tolerance approach to any secondary pupil pratting about.

@Feenie we had parents still hand sanitiser from our reception area and toilets the week before lockdown

@OchonAgusOchonO it would have been easy to mention it again instead of keep repeating that you are not in the U.K.

I do "understand" having Guvved for a wide range of Schools. Eg - very acquainted with budgets, rules and regs

And yet you have completely failed to learn how to spelled Governor.

*spell

@solidaritea
Of course I read the link I gave. I said that was how Sweden has made it work. That is one option. No masks. No 2m SD (between 0.5 and 1m). Sweden has kept schools open all the way through the months the UK had completely closed down schools.

I just happened to hear the repeat of the radio 4 program. Guess what? Adults are most likely to pass on COVID to kids. Many countries other than Sweden have pooled results. For all these countries with all their different regimes of managing school opening, there have been no major outbreaks associated with schools. Preteens are less susceptible to picking up covid and much less likely to be symptomatic than adults thus they are not major sources of contagion. Teachers - get back to school (I say that as a teacher myself)

Schools will be safe for as long as community transmission stays low. How schools being fully open, affects community transmission will be become clearer in the next few weeks.

[quote StaffAssociationRepresentative]@Feenie we had parents still hand sanitiser from our reception area and toilets the week before lockdown[/quote]
😯😯

@Redhair23

So much unjust and shouty anger. I appreciate some people's comprehension skills are poor but it has been explained so many times why it is unsafe under the current guidelines

This is so rude and arrogant.

But yet very true

Teachers - get back to school (I say that as a teacher myself)

Then you'll know that we NEVER FUCKING LEFT.

@namechangerx

Nurseries I've been back open for ages, there's no concern for these children, or staff. At least older children should know and understand the risks of being too close to each and not washing hands their hands.

that's a good point are there many nurseries that have had outbreaks or closures? I know the numbers in the bubbles will be lower but there will be zero social distancing, a lot of personal care, and lots of drool and snot from the little people

I don’t think anger has been primarily in the posts from parents

Maybe if schools weren’t going back it would be.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

I think you should get on with it, yes.

And you are happy that if as in pubs etc this close contact over extended hours causes local shut downs in deprived areas where cases are high, a national discrepancy in the education provided to all pupils and a greater divide between rich and poor - that it was fine because teachers went back in day as they should?

You don't think our students nationally deserve better and deserve a greater chance at school opening being successful?

You don't think when every year 11 has to sit the same exam next year that the education they get should be the same?

The trouble is having more out of school hours does impact disproportionately the lower income student / families. So part time schooling isn’t a good solution if you want a fair chance.

And that’s before you get to the difference between two sectors.

@AutumnLeavesSeptember

Well that's a really cheery opening post. How about we give it a try at least since it's quite important to educate children??

Teachers want more than "a try"

They want a good safe and well planned environment that will be a success.

They want more than the parents who seem to think as long as schools all open day 1 it's been a success and seem unconcerned about what may happen weeks into term.

We need to stop bullying teachers for wanting more for their students than anyone else.

@ Redhair23 - it would have been easy to mention it again instead of keep repeating that you are not in the U.K.

It wouldn't have made any difference. Most people only half read posts so would have continued to post UK relevant replies

Anyway, what difference does it make whether you know which country exactly, so long as you know it's different and different rules apply?

Swedish upper schools for 16+ age were closed. Social distancing was also recommended. I don't think what happened in Sweden is equivalent to a full return of high/secondary in the UK. I'd love it if schools can operate as normal, but realistically I think it's going to unravel by October.

@AutumnLeavesSeptember

At the end of the day, the evidence is partial and contradictory on how kids and teens in schools spread covid. Some parts of the UK are actively trying to eradicate the virus with others not. We are going to have to try stuff out without full knowledge as we don't have evidence enough for certainty.

Yet the same scientific evidence apparently concludes over 11's need face masks in supermarkets and on buses etc. Where they are SD and not spending 6 hours!

Schools are t some karaoke universe where the science is different!

Social distancing was also recommended.

Was it? It didn’t sound like it from Swedish report earlier on R4. Did they give a distance like they do here? (Or used to)