School return will fail

[covidteacherscotland]

Okay so we have been back to school for a week! Great? No. Definitely not. Some thoughts on why this will be a disaster:

16 and 17 year olds are not children.

Social distancing is impossible. Genuinely impossible. Children will not or cannot stay out your space.

There is no PPE in school at all and staff are not protected in any way.

Children don't give a shit about washing their hands.

We've been doing double periods instead of single to minimise movement. This means that we are stuck in a room with 30 17 year olds with few or no windows as the respiratory droplets add up.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

I think that because infection is so low we'll be okay for a while - a few weeks - then the shit will hit the fan.

@wizzbangfizz

Definitely nothing wrong with hoping for the best. As school staff though, I think we have a bit more of an obligation to "hope for the best but plan for the worst" so are maybe more aware of the negatives. As I said, I'm sure you will be supportive of your child's school in reality.

I agree with you on thread title, but I guess it's a MN thing that controversial titles get interest! OP was at the end of the first week back to work, so probably fairly frazzled.

[quote solidaritea]@TrustTheGeneGenie

With you on cleaning. It's dire in all schools I've worked in. Outsourced, cleaned once a day, with toilets regularly out of paper and soap by lunchtime.

For primary, top of my wish-list would be for schools to get enough money to pay for a full-time cleaner to keep things up to a high standard at all times. So simple and relatively cheap, and could make a difference to attendance (obviously it seems Covid is not spread much by touch, but it might help, and may also reduce spread of other diseases).[/quote]
Agreed! I think it should be that way all the time! Nobody wants noro either

I have to say our nursery are bloody excellent they steam clean everything every single day. In normal times.

DS goes to reception next year I assume it will not be the same.

Is there not a cross contamination issue though? They touch their masks or mess about and then touch everything else? Where with no mask they're not as likely to touch their faces etc?

In a primary class, it's rare that a minute goes by without a child licking their hands or picking their nose. All people touch their faces far more than we think, anyway. But with a mask, they're not touching the mucus-y bits of their faces because they're covered with a mask, so they are less likely to rub viruses onto their hands and then onto the furniture etc.

Having said that, I agree that primary aged children wearing masks doesn't really sit right.

[quote RocketFueler]@askmehowiknow that was my original point! That I was able to do that for my child and her school provided great online learning but that most children didn't get that! I get the point. You just don't like what I said because I think parents need to do more to help rather than wait for teachers to do all the hard work. Teachers and parents need to stand together and say "this is not good enough" and demand better. And support each other and acknowledge that both parents and teachers are in a difficult position. [/quote]
But our focus needs to be on families who don't post on mumsnet. Who aren't featured in the times or the mail. There are thousands of kids who have no one fighting their corner. These are the kids that we ALL need to be focusing on.

@solidaritea appreciate your points totally I do get what you are saying and fair enough to the OP title.

@TaxTheRatFarms other measures include no school lunches - everyone must bring it in or pay for a pack up. Diff drop off/collection times, over 11's being asked if they can go wear masks, no paper given out everything online. There the ones I can remember but I'm sure there are more.

@TrustTheGeneGenie
Where with no mask they're not as likely to touch their faces etc?

Based on my experience, definitely not. Depending in the age, children are always fiddling with their hair, rubbing their faces, picking their noses, sucking their thumbs, chewing their pens and pencils, etc. If anything, a mask would serve as a reminder not to do those things.

Personally, I believe the reluctance with masks stems from the cognitive dissonance they would cause: parents would find it more difficult to believe the environment they are sending their children into is actually safe if they have to provide them with masks.

@Iamnotthe1 meant to tag you not the other posters in response to the measures!

[quote Iamnotthe1]@TrustTheGeneGenie
Where with no mask they're not as likely to touch their faces etc?

Based on my experience, definitely not. Depending in the age, children are always fiddling with their hair, rubbing their faces, picking their noses, sucking their thumbs, chewing their pens and pencils, etc. If anything, a mask would serve as a reminder not to do those things.

Personally, I believe the reluctance with masks stems from the cognitive dissonance they would cause: parents would find it more difficult to believe the environment they are sending their children into is actually safe if they have to provide them with masks.[/quote]
Mm yes I see your point. I'm not inherently against masks for older kids I just imagined they would cause their own issues. I'm not a teacher though so fair enough.

I don't feel personally that the sight of masks make me feel like a situation is unsafe though I'm sure you're right that it will for lots of others.

I personally find it hard to communicate with a mask on and therefore i wouldn't want my 4yo child to wear one, if he were 14 I don't think I'd feel quite as strongly however.

I am not sure they are the magic solution some people imagine them to be (not saying you think that btw)

[quote wizzbangfizz]@Iamnotthe1 meant to tag you not the other posters in response to the measures![/quote]
Those measures are significantly far and above what is in the guidance and beyond anything that I have seen from any school. We have been told that, with many of those measures, we wouldn't be able or allowed to do those, especially the no provided lunch one! Is that an English school?

@Iamnotthe1 this is in NW England.

And @Iamnotthe1 there is the provision to pay 2.50 a day for a packed lunch which presumably looks after the free school meal provision? Ours is a very multicultural/ background school.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

There will be a point in the risk level analysis where masks become 'worth it'. Personally, I'd agree that for a four-year old, that level of measure isn't necessarily balanced against the risk level. The data shows that four-year olds have a reduced risk of transmission and they would find it far more difficult to use a mask than an older child.

For me, the balance comes at Year Six, where children are 10. Those majority of those children could manage the mask process (although there are always exceptions) and have been shown to transmit the virus at the same rate as adults do.

@wizzbangfizz

And *@Iamnotthe1* there is the provision to pay 2.50 a day for a packed lunch which presumably looks after the free school meal provision? Ours is a very multicultural/ background school.

If you wouldn't mind, would you dm me the school name. I'd love to have a look at their provision and I think it could help inform some discussions with the rest of my school's SLT. Don't worry if you can't or don't feel comfortable - I've just never even heard of a school with that level of adjustments being made.

Let's my ds gets his results Thursday. I've already explained the algorithm and that CAGs won't count it'll be where he is in rankings compared to what government have decided a school should get grade distribution wise. I've told him he can get his CAG and knows his mocks etc and can appeal.

I still can't see that meaning if the results he opens Thursday aren't the real results he's achieved that it won't break his heart.
I think I'd be more worried if he wasn't upset I wang him to cate and I want him to have ambition for the future.

College will be hard because it's blended learning and he has an ehcp. So some of the stuff won't be full intervention. But I'd rather he got a well planned education like the college have with a great back up plan than him end up with nothing at all again if colleges shut.

It's all a mess but a pandemic was never going to be a party!

@Iamnotthe1 I won't give the name but tomorrow I will screenshot the letter we have had outlining it all and DM you.

[quote wizzbangfizz]@Iamnotthe1 I won't give the name but tomorrow I will screenshot the letter we have had outlining it all and DM you. [/quote]
Excellent - thanks very much!

Bluebells I've just been out for dinner and the restaurant was sorted beautifully and staff didn't wear masks.

But they stayed 2m except for when delivering food and the most they were near people was 30 seconds.

I was very impressed with the restaurant and will be returning again.

We we tipped very well as we appreciate the waitresses and waiters

However when you talk about schools needing to reopen as safely as possible. That's a delaying tactic to ALL kids receiving full time education. We've had 6 months of this. Kids in more deprived areas have already lost out in their grades and university places

It's beyond a joke that teachers aren't the first to stand up and shout loudly that this isn't acceptable

Government have had 6 months to plan safe opening.

They have guidance number 51 to schools 2 days before they opened to wider groups in June. They blocked unions from the start when they wanted to plan opening. They are blocking them now when they want a better plan for students.

And they've managed to turn it around to its being teachers and unions fault.

Teachers and unions had nothing to do with the a level and gcse results shit show. Nothing.

That should tell you who is trying to do their best and who is just spouting about "moral duty" without having the morals to follow their duty of care

In addition to 4G routers provided to local authorities and academy trusts, the Department for Education is working in partnership with BT to offer free access to BT WiFi hotspots for disadvantaged pupils."

Some schools still don't have this equipment. One school I know ordered 21 and were told they could have 6.

What's being said will happen isn't.

The cleaning thing is horrendous really. It surely is better to throw money at cleaning than not and having closures isn't it!

In our local school the cleaning is contracted out because it's cheaper. Therefore the staff can not access the cleaning stuff or cleaning cupboard because it doesn't belong to the school.

Before lockdown the pta asked what funds would be used for this year.

One of the staff suggested a hoover etc

Don't think they were considering it. Hoping now they actually do use fundraising for these things as they'll be very useful.

But at beginning of lockdown they also couldn't get hand sanitiser because the county stores that provide it to councils and schools etc were told they had to redirect it all to nhs.

I think half the issue here is that teachers are so good at hiding the real shit show stuff from parents that now they really need their help and back up whilst they fight for their children - they haven't got it. Because the government got there first publicly shaming unions and teachers

@itsgettingweird

The cleaning thing is horrendous really. It surely is better to throw money at cleaning than not and having closures isn't it!

In our local school the cleaning is contracted out because it's cheaper. Therefore the staff can not access the cleaning stuff or cleaning cupboard because it doesn't belong to the school.

Before lockdown the pta asked what funds would be used for this year.

One of the staff suggested a hoover etc

Don't think they were considering it. Hoping now they actually do use fundraising for these things as they'll be very useful.

But at beginning of lockdown they also couldn't get hand sanitiser because the county stores that provide it to councils and schools etc were told they had to redirect it all to nhs.

I think half the issue here is that teachers are so good at hiding the real shit show stuff from parents that now they really need their help and back up whilst they fight for their children - they haven't got it. Because the government got there first publicly shaming unions and teachers

If that was my child's school id happily join the pta and help raise money. Or id happily buy cleaning stuff it's not exactly mega bucks. Who wants their kids in a dirty school!

Id rather school were totally honest iyswim.

To be fair I'd go clean the sodding school myself if that's what it took.

@TrustTheGeneGenie
To be fair I'd go clean the sodding school myself if that's what it took.

We've had parents offer to do similar. It's really touching how supportive my school's parental community have been. Unfortunately, because everything has to be done 'properly' with approved products and actual cleaning companies etc. we can't accept many of the offers of help. The best thing you can do to help is to lobby your MP about the funding restrictions. If enough people do that, they might affect change.

[quote Iamnotthe1]@TrustTheGeneGenie
To be fair I'd go clean the sodding school myself if that's what it took.

We've had parents offer to do similar. It's really touching how supportive my school's parental community have been. Unfortunately, because everything has to be done 'properly' with approved products and actual cleaning companies etc. we can't accept many of the offers of help. The best thing you can do to help is to lobby your MP about the funding restrictions. If enough people do that, they might affect change.[/quote]
That's a shame isn't it. Bloody red tape.

I may well just do that.

Trust most schools are very lucky that the TAs and lunchtime staff will clean during day. They have taken on so much more of this since March and schools I know have brought cleaning stuff.

The issue is the government have stated in the guidelines there's no funding for this. Which means it gets taken from other areas.

It's great to know parents would help out. Hopefully those who chose to actually digest what teaching staff are saying will offer. Teachers won't tell parents at school level because they are too professional.

I cover various schools as am a trainer. Every teacher is so dedicated to implementing what I teach them into school. And I see such a difference between schools and the disparity of education and premises etc - and that was before Covid.

Trust every voice helps. THANKYOU