School return will fail

[covidteacherscotland]

Okay so we have been back to school for a week! Great? No. Definitely not. Some thoughts on why this will be a disaster:

16 and 17 year olds are not children.

Social distancing is impossible. Genuinely impossible. Children will not or cannot stay out your space.

There is no PPE in school at all and staff are not protected in any way.

Children don't give a shit about washing their hands.

We've been doing double periods instead of single to minimise movement. This means that we are stuck in a room with 30 17 year olds with few or no windows as the respiratory droplets add up.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

I think that because infection is so low we'll be okay for a while - a few weeks - then the shit will hit the fan.

@Pomegranatepompom

Services did not close in my trust. Please stop generalising, we managed to do amazing things in very difficult circumstances. Ie transplants continued, cancer treatment continued.

Did all routine out patient appointments continue? Did planned routine surgery continue? How about infusions to treat arthritis? Physiotherapy? Hand Therapy? Podiatry? These are just some of the services that I've heard and have experienced being cancelled.

@solidaritea

We don't know the long term effects of covid. We don't know what will happen when schools go back as normal, as it hasn't happened yet.

It is an unknown risk. Yes, we know that it's not a huge risk of death for most individuals.

I accept that the same is true, to a lesser extent, for many other diseases. There is a chance that a child could die from chicken pox. We don't know which children this could happen to and we know that the vast majority will be fine. We all live with this risk.

For me, it's the long term effects of covid that worry me. I have two friends with long covid. They were never hospitalised, but still have symptoms 6 months on.

Maybe I'm being over anxious. It won't stop me from going back to work in my primary school and trying to teach the best I can. I want to be back at work as I know my pupils have missed out on learning during lockdown. But I am still anxious and don't think I'm unreasonable to be so. I certainly think that secondaries should have more protocols in place.

I have long term effects from glandular fever and you're just as likely to get that from a high school. It's as if covid is the only thing you could get. It's not! Like you say, "everyday" things kill as well.

I think this has been massively overhyped being called a killer virus etc when in reality most if not all virus' kill, and some people get lasting effects. This has been presented as some new scary thing, much worse than anything we've ever seen before and it's just not true for most people.

It can kill. So can flu. So can bloody noro!

You're not unreasonable to be anxious, no.

Agreed @solidaritea
I know my teacher friend was fabulous. Same in every profession.

@hearhoovesthinkzebras

Your post to the pomegranate is just like the parents who say "my kid only got Twinkl worksheets. What were you doing all day?" which frustrated so many teachers who were working full time on distance learning.

TrustTheGeneGenie

I see that you are still having problems with opinion and fact.

Why the need to defend those that didn’t step up?

Because we don’t know the individual situation of all teachers? Because some were dealing with COVID themselves or in family members, because some struggled with online provision due to their own family situations, because life continued and some were ill with other stuff or suffered bereavements, suffered domestic abuse, marital breakdown, went on maternity leave etc etc etc. More still were working with key worker children and as such, their online offerings couldn’t be expected to be perfect unless you are suggesting they work 2 full time jobs at once? Teachers don’t exist in a vacuum that exempts them from normal life - teachers go on leave for extended periods and you wouldn’t normally really notice because school gets supply in. Lockdown didn’t quite work that way. There have been clear gaps but I am not sure that was because every teacher who failed to deliver failed due to laziness.

@FrippEnos

TrustTheGeneGenie

I see that you are still having problems with opinion and fact.

Right except im not. You said I didn't say something, when in fact I did. That's not an opinion. Hth.

Bowing out of thread, have to swap to driver on our way to Cornwall 🙂 best of luck everyone. I hope you get the money/resources required. Many parents would be happy to contribute I believe - if we can.
Hopefully all will be much better than we fear.

TrustTheGeneGenie

You posted "if you could read" and have been defending this as a fact.

If you stopped to think for one moment you would be able to see that it is not a fact or we would not be having this 'discussion'.

@FrippEnos

TrustTheGeneGenie

You posted "if you could read" and have been defending this as a fact.

If you stopped to think for one moment you would be able to see that it is not a fact or we would not be having this 'discussion'.

No I'm saying that you're wrong. Clearly you can read, just not very well. And yes that's my opinion.

@Enoughnowstop now. I agree people existing in very difficult circumstances. In my particular school - staff worked 1 day every 3 weeks. Maximum 8 key worker children attending, sheet emailed weekly to everyone else. i didn’t say teachers were lazy, in fact I feel I’ve been fairly supportive. But I don’t think anyone can say that level of provision is adequate.

@FlySheMust case in point "poor kids"

Similar to the posts from teachers goading parents on their knees working full time and trying to home school who were dismissed as being unable to "look after their own kids" - utterly disgraceful.

Wanting our kids back in school isn't a crime and as concerned parents we are allowed to hold that opinion.

Good piece in R4 about Swedish schools and all schools from scientific POV atm

Do they get it? less likely under 12, over not much difference in susceptibility

How severely? - asymptomatic less likely to pass on

Do they pass it on? From Aus / Ireland / Singapore very tiny number and low evidence it was children to teacher

Not much data on younger v older, data doesn’t show much difference b/n primary and secondary

May be that educational settings are useful

Children not drivers of pandemic, position is to open schools. Professor Russell Viner

Ok have typed as listened, it’s quite reassuring, but worth listening to incase I’ve missed a bit

Now on to learning loss.

@wizzbangfizz

Then maybe you should support the teachers in schools opening safely. I wouldn't want a child of mine back in secondary school under the present guidelines.

TrustTheGeneGenie

Well at least we have some movement.
Good to see that you finally understand opinion and fact. so my time has not been totally wasted.

Thanks for the second biscuit, it means so much.

@FrippEnos

TrustTheGeneGenie

Well at least we have some movement.
Good to see that you finally understand opinion and fact. so my time has not been totally wasted.

Thanks for the second biscuit, it means so much.

Oh I've always understood opinion and fact. And yet you still can't admit when you're wrong.

Are you a teacher out of interest? I really hope not.

I find ur title and first post very annoying, u might have experienced it but its a stretch to say its happening all over!

To be fair, teachers have had their eyes opened to certain parents.

Zero respect for many of them posting here. Poor kids.

To be honest I think you’ve hit a nail on the head here.

Service users criticise en mass the service they were given.

Other professions:- shit we better look internally how we can improve and try and fix it.

Teachers:- blame the service users. They must be assholes.

You can not compare Swedish schools to UK ones!!!!

There is not much evidence of children to teacher transmission because THEY DONT TEST FOR THAT!

There is lots of evidence to say children transmit the virus to adults.

Do you honestly think that being in a stuffy enclosed space for many hours, poor ventilation, no masks, no social distancing, that a child would not pass on the virus to teachers, TAs and other children in that class? Honestly? Is there some kind of magic in schools that stops the virus being transmitted compared to EVERYWHERE else?

Did you not see the large numbers of schools affected by an outbreak once they opened up to Yrs R, 1 and 6 compared to just Key workers? That was with just HALF the children in.

Similar to the posts from teachers goading parents on their knees working full time and trying to home school who were dismissed as being unable to "look after their own kids" - utterly disgraceful

Teachers also working from home, home schooling and on their knees. When I commented that my own children were being neglected as a result of my school’s demands, I was told I was being over dramatic. That’s disgraceful, that my kids took a back seat to the kids I was teaching. I wonder how they felt? What about their needs or don’t they matter?

YewHedge if your caps lock rant is at me I am relaying R4 scientists. Have a listen you’ll get it better from there.

@YewHedge

You can not compare Swedish schools to UK ones!!!!

There is not much evidence of children to teacher transmission because THEY DONT TEST FOR THAT!

There is lots of evidence to say children transmit the virus to adults.

Do you honestly think that being in a stuffy enclosed space for many hours, poor ventilation, no masks, no social distancing, that a child would not pass on the virus to teachers, TAs and other children in that class? Honestly? Is there some kind of magic in schools that stops the virus being transmitted compared to EVERYWHERE else?

Did you not see the large numbers of schools affected by an outbreak once they opened up to Yrs R, 1 and 6 compared to just Key workers? That was with just HALF the children in.

You know an "outbreak" might only be two cases, and you know a lot of the time it was staff right?

It wasn’t from when half children were in which is why I outlined countries

That’s disgraceful, that my kids took a back seat to the kids I was teaching. I wonder how they felt? What about their needs or don’t they matter?

Everyone’s kids took a back seat to their jobs. Yes it was disgraceful and it can’t continue.

People should be more curious about what the scientific community are saying rather than flying off the handle because it doesn’t fit what they want to hear. Must be exhausting to be so angry at people relaying data.

If you’re interested in schools then makes sense to be open to information.