Sweden An International Scandal

[ClimbDad]

At the same time as telling the Swedish public there was no risk of transmission through schools, chief epidemiologist Tegnell was sending private emails saying schools should be kept open to increase the rate of transmission and accelerate his objective of herd immunity. This man knowingly and deliberately used children to spread disease.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/13/swedens-chief-epidemiologist-wanted-keep-schools-open-spread/

And contrary to what some on here think, Swedish teachers were more affected by the virus than other professions. The government just stopped publishing the data and made it an official state secret.

In fact, Sweden went out of its way not to study the spread of the virus through schools.

www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/how-sweden-wasted-rare-opportunity-study-coronavirus-schools

Anyone who points to Sweden as a model needs to think long and hard about what they’re supporting: a regime that knowingly used children to spread a potentially lethal disease.

There is nowhere for you to hide. Sweden’s chief epidemiologist says schools increase transmission. Open schools without masks and with normal class sizes and we will see the same thing in the UK.

How many Swedish children passed away from this virus that largely doesn't seriously affect children, out of interest?

Not too sure the Swedish government would appreciate being called a 'regime.'

Also how are you doing ClimbDad? We haven't chatted for at least a few days. I've just been on a lovely holiday and been swimming in the sea. It was lovely. My friend's children just went back to school in Scotland and sent me a text about how their mental health is noticeable improving already, which is nice.

Maybe you went to bed. It is late, after all.

TheAdventures what about teachers? Even if you don’t care about them on a personal level, how will schools function with high levels of staff sickness? They won’t be able to remain open if enough staff are off ill with the virus. The adults need to be protected.

I dont feel like that article says that? It uses alot of might and probably and then says the spread was in line with finland?

Nobody thinks kids cant get it. Your post is exaggerating.

The vast (vast) majority of teachers are not at risk of being seriously affected by the virus so don't technically need protection. And I do care about them - I have teachers in my family. High levels of staff sickness? Well, we'll see. I hope that won't be the case. People have been mixing considerable for months now and cases have largely continued to fall. If we do have high levels of sickness absences it will be a difficult situation to manage, potentially, but it's just one possibility whereas we know there are definite and serious risks to schools not opening.

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair

How many Swedish children passed away from this virus that largely doesn't seriously affect children, out of interest?

Not too sure the Swedish government would appreciate being called a 'regime.'

It was 0 last time I looked

Jrob! Waves. How are you? Why aren't you asleep? I am overtired and wasting time on here.

It was 0 last time I looked

Zero you say? Interesting, thank you! That's reassuring isn't it ClimbDad? I think it is.

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair

The vast (vast) majority of teachers are not at risk of being seriously affected by the virus so don't technically need protection. And I do care about them - I have teachers in my family. High levels of staff sickness? Well, we'll see. I hope that won't be the case. People have been mixing considerable for months now and cases have largely continued to fall. If we do have high levels of sickness absences it will be a difficult situation to manage, potentially, but it's just one possibility whereas we know there are definite and serious risks to schools not opening.

‘I have teachers in my family’, the new ‘I have friends who are black’. Meaningless platitude.

Thanks for the article. Surely even the soporific Swedes will react now.

Didn't the WHO say that long term most countries would need to do something similar to Sweden? I'm sure I remember that from somewhere.

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair

Jrob! Waves. How are you? Why aren't you asleep? I am overtired and wasting time on here.

Was feeding the baby lol

Thanks for posting.

I see some of the people who jump on your posts have done so again. They do seem to follow you quite fervently!

There's clearly a global inability to settle on a good school plan. The main thing that worries me about the UK is there is no age distinction - and in fact primary where it appears children are at lowest risk due to age also has the least risky set up.

So I am more worried by secondary.

It is important to note even Sweden kept older teens off school.

"Regime "?! [grin

And another article where various scientists disagree...

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair

It was 0 last time I looked

Zero you say? Interesting, thank you! That's reassuring isn't it ClimbDad? I think it is.

How many teachers died or are left with long term health implications? It isn't only children who are in schools. Also have you seen pictures of Swedish schools? They couldn't be further from British schools if they tried.

I don't think my child is going to die if they go to school.

I do think schools will be a place of spread. I think the UK approach to schools is really concerning.

Omg, in a nice way, you need help.

You're going to worry yourself in to an early grave at this rate. All this doom and gloom isn't good for a person you know?

Please stop trying to get other people on board with your obsession. It's unhealthy.

@latticechaos

Thanks for posting.

I see some of the people who jump on your posts have done so again. They do seem to follow you quite fervently!

There's clearly a global inability to settle on a good school plan. The main thing that worries me about the UK is there is no age distinction - and in fact primary where it appears children are at lowest risk due to age also has the least risky set up.

So I am more worried by secondary.

It is important to note even Sweden kept older teens off school.

Some of his posts are fair. Some are not. Like this one.

The article he has posted even ends with:

"This suggests that keeping schools open did not increase the spread among children"

"There is nowhere for you to hide. Sweden’s chief epidemiologist says schools increase transmission. Open schools without masks and with normal class sizes and we will see the same thing in the UK."

What does this even mean? Who are you warning? Like on all your other posts npbody disagrees with you on masks etc but there is nothing mumsnet can do about it. We don't make the rules. In that article it says he thought children MIGHT have added to the spread but in the end concluded that they didn't..

FGS. Totally bonkers.

Sweden...a regime .

Sweden has one of the most forward thinking child centered approach to education in Europe. They value their teachers enormously. Whilst I’m sure there are lessons to be learned, I believe your post is purely hysterical.

Please take a break for a short while.

@Jrobhatch29 I just think the speed with which the same names jump on comes across as a bit odd.

Anyway, the news from Sweden is relevant given that Swedish minister was advising UK to open schools fully.

[quote latticechaos]@Jrobhatch29 I just think the speed with which the same names jump on comes across as a bit odd.

Anyway, the news from Sweden is relevant given that Swedish minister was advising UK to open schools fully.[/quote]
I just think some posts need contradicting. Using an article that concludes the opposite to the point you are trying to make is ridiculous.
Does he have evidence data on teachers has been supressed and made an "official state secret"?

P. S. I was up at 3am feeding my baby which is why I saw his 1am post! Mumsnet helps me stay awake whilst I do so. I don't wait for ClimbDad posts to jump on.

Wow. Some people are in really deep denial. This article goes into more detail about the email exchanges.

Tegnell was telling the Swedish public schools poses no risk while at the same time talking to other public health officials about how keeping schools open would amplify transmission.

www.thelocal.se/20200813/revealed-swedish-health-officials-emails-about-herd-immunity-and-schools

Tegnell lied and those lies have led some people on here to believe it will be safe to open schools with full class sizes and without masks in September.

Please feel free to carry on attacking me personally rather than providing any evidence that schools will not pose a serious transmission risk. Sweden has been cited as a reason to believe they don’t, but even the man responsible for the Swedish response believes they do.

It looks like you’ll get the chance to try your positive thinking experiment in a few weeks and see whether a pandemic can be controlled by hopes and wishes. If reality bites, let’s hope someone somewhere has been working on a backup plan.

If that's at me about attacking personally, it's not an attack it's friendly advice.

This. Is. Not. Good. For. You.

I really wish there was a two sided sensible debate. I can’t see past the nastiness so the counter arguments keep getting lost for me.

Thanks @ClimbDad - I’m too tight to pay to read the telegraph atm but read the scientist article. Very interesting.

I don’t find you deliberately alarmist at all and only realise it’s you when others jump on your posts. Very weird.

Thanks for the post, I do wonder about the policies and what is/isn’t in the public domain. Makes it hard for us to make choices for our individual families so I appreciate your posts.

Inevitably there isn’t complete transparency about the reasons (or risks) behind schools opening.