Sweden An International Scandal

[ClimbDad]

At the same time as telling the Swedish public there was no risk of transmission through schools, chief epidemiologist Tegnell was sending private emails saying schools should be kept open to increase the rate of transmission and accelerate his objective of herd immunity. This man knowingly and deliberately used children to spread disease.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/13/swedens-chief-epidemiologist-wanted-keep-schools-open-spread/

And contrary to what some on here think, Swedish teachers were more affected by the virus than other professions. The government just stopped publishing the data and made it an official state secret.

In fact, Sweden went out of its way not to study the spread of the virus through schools.

www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/how-sweden-wasted-rare-opportunity-study-coronavirus-schools

Anyone who points to Sweden as a model needs to think long and hard about what they’re supporting: a regime that knowingly used children to spread a potentially lethal disease.

There is nowhere for you to hide. Sweden’s chief epidemiologist says schools increase transmission. Open schools without masks and with normal class sizes and we will see the same thing in the UK.

@GoldenOmber

I am not saying it won't spread in schools. I do think we need more in place. But posting an alarmist thread with a ficticious claim that kids were delibrately used to spread a virus is completely irresponsible.

Agreed. How on earth does it help to share misinformation? Surely there’s enough actual truth out there to discuss without making stuff up? Doing this doesn’t support the broader points, it undermines them.

I don't understand how those two articles, especially the Science magazine one, is 'misinformation' rather than a link to an article with the op's views attached.

He is back !!!

"I don't understand how those two articles, especially the Science magazine one, is 'misinformation' rather than a link to an article with the op's views attached."

The article isn't the misinformation. The misinformation is the OP claiming that sweden delibrately used children to spread the virus to get herd immunity.

@Jrobhatch29

No more than 23 also sounds lovely! I know that we need to return to our full class sizes in September, as I know that it’s not really possible to stay in the small bubbles. My school actually has a shared unit in EYFS so I will have 60 children in my classroom with two TA’s and another teacher. We are going to have a lot of emphasis on hand washing and cleaning and limit free choice play so that they only play with the activities we have set up rather than being allowed free choice access. This will hopefully make cleaning easier as we will know what has been touched and played with.

With regards to the class size of 15, I just meant that I would love it if we were able to move permanently to classes of 15/16 as it would be so good for the children. I’m aware this will never happen as it would mean building more schools, funding more schools and recruiting more staff and we already have a recruitment and retention crisis but I can dream!

How are you feeling about returning?

@latticechaos

Thanks for posting.

I see some of the people who jump on your posts have done so again. They do seem to follow you quite fervently!

There's clearly a global inability to settle on a good school plan. The main thing that worries me about the UK is there is no age distinction - and in fact primary where it appears children are at lowest risk due to age also has the least risky set up.

So I am more worried by secondary.

It is important to note even Sweden kept older teens off school.

Who do you think prinary is less at risk

I don't understand how those two articles, especially the Science magazine one, is 'misinformation' rather than a link to an article with the op's views attached.

It’s not that the articles are misinformation. It is claiming that they prove something they don’t. And of the articles outright says that the evidence suggests their schools didn’t increase transmission.

This is just as bad as the denialists who use Sweden to ‘prove’ that our economy would be fine and dandy right now if it hadn’t been for lockdown. This is a really important subject, can’t we at least TRY for accuracy?

With the amount of scaremongering threads that OP has started on this subject, it’s clear that OP really has a bee in their bonnet about the schools reopening.

How about if you have kids yourself, de-register them and home school them. If you are a teacher, resign. Leave the rest of is to make our own decisions.

@MaveyWavey

With the amount of scaremongering threads that OP has started on this subject, it’s clear that OP really has a bee in their bonnet about the schools reopening.

How about if you have kids yourself, de-register them and home school them. If you are a teacher, resign. Leave the rest of is to make our own decisions.

Do you not see that the uk plan for secondary schools returning with inadequate SD and PPE is going to impact the entire UK and not just the school community? One could de register, resign etc but the impact of increases in infections as millions of secondary school students start mixing is still likely to affect you. Unless the UK has a shit hot track and trace that shuts down each infection we could become overwhelmed within months again. It's not scaremongering but more reality.

There is a more detailed report in the link below, but as it's in Swedish, I think some of the detail is lost in translation (using Google translate as I don't understand Swedish, but maybe someone on here does?)
www.expressen.se/nyheter/qs/interna-radslaget-om-flockimmunitet/

What’s the weather like in San Fran op?

Mogtheforgetfulmum I completely empathise with your situation and am so sorry you feel like quitting. I worked as a teacher for years and left at a time when the country was haemorrhaging teachers because of the mad system its now become. Don't leave because of the aggressive women on mumsnet making vile, thoughtless, comments.
Leave if its all too much... it impacted my health, I had to.
There are other options related to education.

Meanwhile, back onto the subject of Sweden, personally having lived in Sweden for years and finally left feeling completely stunned at the degree of latent racism and xenophobia in the country - I actually think there was another reason why they weren't quick to lockdown a country knowing that it was vastly the ethnic immigrants that were dying. I checked the data re who was actually dying in Sweden, after watching this video :

@MaveyWavey

With the amount of scaremongering threads that OP has started on this subject, it’s clear that OP really has a bee in their bonnet about the schools reopening.

How about if you have kids yourself, de-register them and home school them. If you are a teacher, resign. Leave the rest of is to make our own decisions.

It's my country as much as it is yours, so how about not telling other people what to do, do what you choose with your own kids, and leave others to do what they choose?

It's no one else's business if I send mine in, keep them off, deregister or anything else. It's between me, school and the council. MYOB.

Sweden continues to make the news for all the wrong reasons.

fortune.com/2020/07/27/herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-sweden/

Well it's quite possible he is a scientist and a parent.

You’d think, if that were the case, he’d express some interest in something other than ...

Pessimistic story often misrepresented. Then loop right back to schools without fail.

It’s very ... formulaic.

I might be missing something but sweden gets alot of negativity on here. Yet belgium has a comparable population size, had a lock down and way higher deaths per million. What am I missing?

Because no one is banging on about how we should have done what Belgium did!

As a PP said we won’t be able to judge whether Sweden’s approach was better or worse than a lockdown for several years.

Sweden chose to avoid a full lockdown to minimise the deaths and suffering that a full lockdown will cause over the medium to long term, whilst taking some less draconian measures to limit covid spread. Their covid-caused deaths and suffering may be higher as a result (though possibly not over the longer term) but their lockdown-caused deaths and suffering will be lower.

Only in the long term will we know which approach was best at minimising overall harm.

@mrshoho

Because no one is banging on about how we should have done what Belgium did!

Haha yes silly me, I get that! But they haven't done the worst even without a lockdown is all I mean.

Do you not see that the uk plan for secondary schools returning with inadequate SD and PPE is going to impact the entire UK and not just the school community?

Around me, we've had groups of teenagers meeting for months. In small and big groups. I walk past them most days - they're playing football, draping themselves all over each other to chat, drinking and sitting canoodling on benches. So far that hasn't done damage in terms of the virus spreading in a serious manner. I know many are meeting outside but not all - I do actually feel optimistic that moving the mingling into schools isn't going to make the biggest difference in reality. They're all already having close physical contact.

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair

Do you not see that the uk plan for secondary schools returning with inadequate SD and PPE is going to impact the entire UK and not just the school community?

Around me, we've had groups of teenagers meeting for months. In small and big groups. I walk past them most days - they're playing football, draping themselves all over each other to chat, drinking and sitting canoodling on benches. So far that hasn't done damage in terms of the virus spreading in a serious manner. I know many are meeting outside but not all - I do actually feel optimistic that moving the mingling into schools isn't going to make the biggest difference in reality. They're all already having close physical contact.

I sincerely hope you are right. I'm generally an optimistic person but UK state secondary school classrooms seem to be the ideal environment for transmission. The size of the room, the ventilation issues and the number of people, together with the length of time spent in there plus no requirement for PPE is concerning. Obviously the level of local community infections will play a part and so if these are low the schools have some chance but also will depend on an efficient track and trace system. It's all very uncertain and parts of the UK will probably get through with little disruption but large parts will be start/stop.

Hoe many children are experiencing after effects of having covid which are likely to be long term health conditions?

People act like the death toll is the only statistic to consider. The outcomes aren't as simple as survived or not.

In the shorter term it was more brutal and indeed has caused more deaths but we cannot question it as an approach until much later down the line.

And has had no discernible effect on immunity nor the economy. So, what benefit was gained from a higher death toll than its scandic neighbours?

@MintyMabel

Hoe many children are experiencing after effects of having covid which are likely to be long term health conditions?

People act like the death toll is the only statistic to consider. The outcomes aren't as simple as survived or not.

Very true. Nobody knows what the long term effects of this novel virus are as yet.

@MintyMabel

Hoe many children are experiencing after effects of having covid which are likely to be long term health conditions?

People act like the death toll is the only statistic to consider. The outcomes aren't as simple as survived or not.

I was wondering if any countries are studying the effects of covid on the fully-recovered group?

I am so wary of the long term changes to heart etc.

We just know so little

Around me, we've had groups of teenagers meeting for months. In small and big groups

Firstly, they are outside. Not the same at all.

Secondly, what is the chain of transmission from those teens to you, so long as your family is SD? There isn't one.

Once schools open, we are all much more at risk.