Sweden An International Scandal

[ClimbDad]

At the same time as telling the Swedish public there was no risk of transmission through schools, chief epidemiologist Tegnell was sending private emails saying schools should be kept open to increase the rate of transmission and accelerate his objective of herd immunity. This man knowingly and deliberately used children to spread disease.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/13/swedens-chief-epidemiologist-wanted-keep-schools-open-spread/

And contrary to what some on here think, Swedish teachers were more affected by the virus than other professions. The government just stopped publishing the data and made it an official state secret.

In fact, Sweden went out of its way not to study the spread of the virus through schools.

www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/how-sweden-wasted-rare-opportunity-study-coronavirus-schools

Anyone who points to Sweden as a model needs to think long and hard about what they’re supporting: a regime that knowingly used children to spread a potentially lethal disease.

There is nowhere for you to hide. Sweden’s chief epidemiologist says schools increase transmission. Open schools without masks and with normal class sizes and we will see the same thing in the UK.

"How is Mumsnet letting some of these posts remain? I thought personal attacks were against guidelines."

Couldn't agree more. The bitchiness is so awful. I come onto the coronavirus board every week (since March) and just feel so uncomfortable about the endless condemning of anyone with a concern.
And the horrible smug comments about those unaffected by covid living a "normal life, going to beaches etc - said with sarcasm and plain nastiness.

If there's a valid point to raise ie OP is worrying people unnecessarily, then this could be easily expressed without the bitchy undertones.

My ex husband and father to my children is a secondary school teacher who picked up covid from school and nearly died. My children were heartbroken and so was I. Five months later he struggles with life post covid due to lung damage and CFS.

The attack on teachers and suggestions that they want an extended holiday is repulsive, and I urge anyone who agrees with me to contact mumsnet and report.

@Barbie222

I'm not sure this story is as dramatic as he's making out, but *@ClimbDad* isn't a teacher - he works in science and posts on the good news threads too about the work he's doing

Hahaha. Yeah sure. And I'm Lord Lucan....

We - and every other country - is going to have to be like Sweden or we might as well give up.

Happy to be like Sweden in terms of schools - but the government is doing something totally opposite!

Lots of nasty, unneccessary comments on this thread.

I will definitely be popping back on here once schools have been back for 6 weeks. I don't think some peoples denial is going to age well. It reminds me of the threads back in February where people were told they were 'scaremongering' and 'catastrophising'...

@SanctuaryPlease a previous thread (that was since removed) made it clear I think who he is and who he works for

I am also shocked at the vicious personal attacks to the OP. It makes me cringe and just reminds me of the school bullies. It is embarrassing that grown adults speak to people in that way.

I have reported your innapropriate comments attacking teachers @Friendsoftheearth and @yogz1976

I have no issues with saying schools need more measures. Though there has been many threads that go round in circles. Where I have an issue is pushing this message with claims like this by the OP:

"Tegnell was sending private emails saying schools should be kept open to increase the rate of transmission and accelerate his objective of herd immunity. This man knowingly and deliberately used children to spread disease."

"There is nowhere for you to hide. Sweden’s chief epidemiologist says schools increase transmission. Open schools without masks and with normal class sizes and we will see the same thing in the UK"

Which are not supported by the articles provided by the OP and infact one article ends with:

"This suggests that keeping schools open did not increase the spread among children."

I am not saying it won't spread in schools. I do think we need more in place. But posting an alarmist thread with a ficticious claim that kids were delibrately used to spread a virus is completely irresponsible.

@Jrobhatch29 well said. Some people just take his opening posts as fact without engaging a brain

Climbdad claims to be a scientist working on a Covid treatment (🤣) yet every single thread he posts loops back to schools somehow.

Draw your own conclusions folks.

ClimbDad has your research been published yet? Is it the MABs? Can you explain how it will help and make all your worry about schools unnecessary?

@LaurieMarlow

Climbdad claims to be a scientist working on a Covid treatment (🤣) yet every single thread he posts loops back to schools somehow.

Draw your own conclusions folks.

Well it's quite possible he is a scientist and a parent. Even if not a parent anyone with knowledge of the virus will see that when millions of secondary schools pupils are soon mixing with inadequate social distancing and PPE there will be implications to the UK. This really isn't going to be just a school issue.

@stirling I agree. As a teacher who has worked harder than ever since lockdown these comments are really disheartening to read. It feels constant. If this is genuinely what parents think of us, it's actually making me consider handing my notice in. I know others who feel the same. I had a career before teaching, there is a reason teachers are more likely to suffer from work related stress than any other profession and 1 in 3 teachers leave after 5 years. The number of teachers quitting after their first year hit an all time high last year. I don't think the general public appreciate how truly stretched and underfunded education currently is in the UK. The treatment of education during this pandemic is the last nail in the coffin.

I'm about to go back to school and be in close contact with 300 different students a week, without any ppe or realistic social distancing. I am knowingly putting myself at high risk, despite being vulnerable, because I care about my students and their education has always been of utmost importance to me. I have been teaching for many years and at this stage, the remaining people left in teaching certainly aren't doing it for the money or holidays. Yet teachers are still being vilified and subject to these nasty comments. The NHS weren't mocked and criticised when they asked for better PPE and protection? Why as professionals are our very real, genuine concerns being cast aside? Not only that, we are reading comments questioning our very integrity and commitment for simply asking for safety measures which have been provided to every other professional in the country at this time.

We want schools to open but most importantly we want them to stay open. The current plans will only cause more disruption and death.

@Mogtheforgetfulmum

I really value teachers. I don't understand the comments and tbh I don't understand parents who are happy to send older teens in without SD.

Maybe it is just system justification, we're so used to our shit schools and shit systems people can't think past what we have now.

MABs for covid is already in the public arena, so if it's that he claims to be working on, it's easy to read up on.

Thank you @latticechaos

It's going to be hard to keep some of the nasty things I've read on here out of my mind when I go back in a few weeks. I'm going to try to keep some perspective and remember that there are also lots of supportive parents out there.

Aren't they looking for an industrial partner though? Aerisol delivery in schools is touted as a first use case.

@latticechaos I agree with the system justification. I also think people think that schools haven't changed much since they attended them. The reality is they have changed so, so much (for the better in lots of aspects but also worse in others).

@latticechaos

I'd be happy with a UK plan to replicate Swedish schools - half sizes classes and online learning for sixthformers.

I think you'd get very healthy majority support for that.

@latticechaos I think that would be fantastic! I got so much more done with my bubble of 15 than I usually do with a class of 30. I still had a TA as I work in EYFS and it was great. We were able to do so many different things that we normally wouldn’t do because it would be too hard to manage with 30 or we wouldn’t have enough resources/space to do with 30. We also ate lunch with the children every day in the classroom as obviously they couldn’t go down to the hall like normal. It was actually a really lovely social time and everyone learnt how to clean up after themselves and enjoy eating together, rather than bolting their food down as quickly as possible so that the next year group can get into our tiny school hall. The classroom was so much calmer and more spacious as we had less furniture so there were less surfaces that needed cleaning. I felt less stressed and had so much more time to nurture each child. I had a lot of my more vulnerable children in my bubble, as obviously they were prioritised and I honestly feel that a lot of them absolutely flourished, as they didn’t have to compete for attention in a busy classroom of 15. I would love to have 15 in a class permanently if only money would allow. It felt so good for the children.

*I’m aware I’m ignoring the main point of the thread!

Also to people praising Sweden and wishing the UK had followed I'd say be careful what you wish for. Just comparing Stokholm to London the covid death rate in Stokholm is not great.

Stokholm population 2.4m 2384 covid deaths
London population 9m covid deaths 6885.

@Friendsoftheearth

Is climbdad a teacher enjoying the indefinite school holidays for the past six months and wishing to continue to Christmas and beyond do we think?

Oh do fuck off. I don't know one teacher who hasn't worked constantly (including throughout both the Eater holiday and May half term).

@Leodot I am lucky where I work as it is one and a half form entry of upto 45 per year group with 2 classes so most in class is 23. Last year in y2 we had a really small year group and I had 16 in my class. It was bliss! The teacher getting them in sept feels really lucky. My sons are going back to classes of 30. I do find it worrying but equally if they went part time I am not sure how I would be able to return to my own job, especially if they were in/out of school on different days

I am not saying it won't spread in schools. I do think we need more in place. But posting an alarmist thread with a ficticious claim that kids were delibrately used to spread a virus is completely irresponsible.

Agreed. How on earth does it help to share misinformation? Surely there’s enough actual truth out there to discuss without making stuff up? Doing this doesn’t support the broader points, it undermines them.

When we look back in 5 years time we will see who had the right approach. I'm on the fence, I have a hunch that catching it will give you better immunity than the vaccine so in the long run most people will have to have it to eradicate it (or it becomes just another disease in circulation). Yes I've had it, lost four acquaintances to it, just being frank

There's another thread on aibu about angry moaners.

Think it is the same about schools. A small but aggressive minority post horrible things about teachers but that's because they have issues, most parents are pretty middle ground surely?

Whenever I read the aggressive ranty anti-teacher posts I because they sound like dicks.